1996 Johnson 225 hard start

[firehat]

I own a 1996 Johnson 225hp motor. I am having problems starting the engine, it is difficult to start. Once, it finally starts a cloud of smoke is emitted for about a minute. When it finally warms up he engine starts every time but when it gets cold it is very difficult to start.The carbs have been rebuilt but still there is no change. Any Advice as to the reason for this problem?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

Oh my gosh another one! Please --- provide some data. Did you just get this boat or have you owned it for period of tiime and this is a new issue. What is the service history. What is your starting procedure. How old is the fuel. Do you use a fuel system treatment, is the oil injection pump still operational or do you pre-mix fuel, Pretend you just went to your doctor. He will be able to diagnose the problem if you give him/her details. Don't make us pull information from you.

 

[firehat]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

I had this boat for two years, and this starting problem has alway been.
The gas is good, 89, I prime the bulb until it hard, I push in on the chock at the key, it acts like its going to crank but it doesnt. it fires up then cuts off, And keep working with it prime and choke it until it crank. It is a self oil, I use johnson oil at 50. 1. the compression is good

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

Have you tried raising the fast idle lever a bit during initial start? If the engine starts and then immediately begins to die off push in on the key again (just bump it - no need to hold it in). You may need to do this two or three times before it settles in to a nice idle. Turn the key to RUN (not START) and push the key in. Do you hear the primer solenoid click. If not, there is either a wiring problem to the primer solenoid or the primer solenoid is bad.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

Primer solenoid must click when the key is pressed in. Check that first. If no click, debug electrical to primer solenoid, or, if solenoid is bad, replace.

Try this: Pump primer bulb up til firm. Turn red lever on primer solenoid to manual prime position. Pump primer bulb two more times. It will not be firm when you do this. Turn red primer lever to run position. Start. (You will not need to press the key in while starting.)

Should fire right up. If it does, debug primer solenoid operation.

Another test....you can pull off a primer hose where it connects to the back of the manifold. #2 is very easy to get to. Pull it off, turn red lever to manual, pump primer bulb. Fuel should shoot out the primer hose, and into a waiting container. That verifies fuel flow thru the primer solenoid system.

It really is a very simple system and once you truly understand the operation, it is a piece of cake to debug problems.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

The motor has a sytem called QuikStart that automatically advances the timing for a cold start. QuikStart normally disengages when the temperature reaches around 96 or the RPM reaches 1100, whichever occurs first.

When QuikStart does not engage, it can be very difficult to start the engine. Two things are required: a properly functioning temperature switch and voltage to the red and yellow wire when the starter is engaged.

 

[adriandavidpayne]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

I pulled the hose from the top of the carb, pushed key in and fuel spirts out.
I have a very cold 45 minute starting motor.

Today I cranked on it a while, NO GO! I followed Daselbee's method. Set on RUN pumped ball, set to MANUAL pumped ball a couple of times, set back to RUN, did not press the key in and it
started immediately.

What is this telling me? What is broken?

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

Ok, so what you did is this:
Your first steps were to fill the fuel system up with gas, from the tank to the carb bowls, by pumping the primer bulb. At the point when the fuel system is full, the primer bulb will get firm and remain firm.
The next step, you opened the red elec. primer lever to manual position. This basically opened the valve that lets fuel flow up to the back side of the manifold, bypassing the carbs completely, and allows (when you pump the primer bulb again) the fuel to squirt directly into the manifold, enriching the fuel charge very much.
Close the manual red valve, hit the key and it starts.

So, what is happening? First, when you press the key in, the solenoid is supposed to open the valve on top of the primer solenoid , and allow that gas flow to occur via the electrical method, instead of having to manually open the valve with the red lever. At this point, I would pull the primer hoses off the back of the intake one at a time, and absolutely verify that I had gas flowing when the key is pressed in, manual red lever is in RUN position, and the primer bulb is squeezed. The engine does not need to be running, or even trying to start it. Just press key in when in ON position, and then pump primer bulb. Check for gas flow.
If NO gas, then the valve on top of the primer solenoid is not functioning. You already know that the lines are open, because you get fine gas flow when in manual mode. YOu just gotta make sure the gas flows when you press the key in.

I once had a primer solenoid that was ON so much, from the user pressing the key in, that it got so hot that the body of the solenoid melted the glue holding the windings into the case, and the windings sort of slid out of the bottom of the case about 1/2". Simply by weight of gravity, as your primer solenoid is oriented vertically. It would no longer work electrically, still clicked, but the shaft inside that moves, and operates the valve was now out of position by 1/2". But it would work fine manually.

Check it out and post back, please.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

Bump to top for adrian...look here.

 

[adriandavidpayne]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

I pulled the hose out of the top, pressed the key and gas pulsed out. I couldn't really get to the other 2 hoses without fear of breaking something before I head out today. I will say, I see a little bit of moisture around the inside of the red lever. It's slight. I also see gas around the carb. I just had the Gaskets replaced when I had my crank case sealed. I guess I have a hose leak somewhere, or stuck carb float. Who knows? I'm a music producer from Nashville, playing the role of mechanic

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

If it starts using the manual method I posted, then there has got to be something wrong with the electrical function of the primer solenoid. You sure you have pulled the right hose? Little small 1/16" tube to the back side of the manifold....
On yours, it is easiest to get to the upper starboard one, which would be for cylinder #2. It is almost directly below the rim of the flywheel, on the backside of the intake. By the way, there are six of these.

I am not speaking about the fuel supply hose that branches off to each carb bowl in the front. Make sure you understand that.

 

[adriandavidpayne]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

I think It's narrowed down to the Primer Solenoid. Today I took the hoses off, (which on my motor are located at the front of the manifold). With hoses pulled, I push in the key, NO GAS. I turn the switch to Manual & Pump the ball, GAS! Just for fun, I pulled the hose to the carb bowls and pushed key in. NO GAS. Though in the past Gas did flow through there during this test, not today. No matter what hose I disconnected in MANUAL mode, Gas came out when I pumped the ball. If I Set it on RUN...Nothing!

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

OK, you don't have a true 1996 by the way. The primer hoses are in the back side of the intake on a 96. Just so you know.

So now, what to do? Does the primer solenoid click when you press the key in? If so, the internals may have slipped down like I described, or the diaphragm in the top where the red lever is is fubar'ed.

There are repair kits made by Sierra for the top valve assy. Can be bought from Iboats. You can always repl the whole primer solenoid assembly.
Me, i would want to know WHY it wan't working and then proceed.

You have it from here on in....good luck.

 

[adriandavidpayne]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

No Daselbee, I don't have a 1996. I was re-directed to this thread from my original thread. I have a 1989 Johnson 150 GT. Sorry for the confusion. However, your diagnosis seems to be spot on. The Solenoid does click and is getting 12V, however, no Gas comes out no matter how many times you press the key. Think I'll just pick up a new one and go from there.
Thanks for you help!

 

[adriandavidpayne]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

*Update: It was the Primer Solenoid.

 

[spinnerbaits]

Re: 1996 Johnson 225 hard start

I also have the cold starting problem on my GT-150 that has been totally rebuilt by OMC certified service center. The problem was there before and after rebuild; and the rebuild included converting from the VRO to manual fuel pumps. What determines how much primer backpressure is available to prime the carburetors? From what I have read on the forums is the manual primer methods was to squeeze the primer bulb 2-3 times, then return the lever to run position and start the motor. It sounds like the key push method will not work unless the primer bulb is squeezed 2-3 time, is there a back pressure created when the bulb firm and acts as a pressurize reservoir of fuel and if so how might it be increased in capacity so the bulb does not have to be squeeze firm but only one time especially during cold starts?

 

[festerized]

Just want to say thanks for the help with my hard starting issue on my 1997 Johnson Ocean Pro.

Been having issues since last year, after replacing the VRO pump, primer solenoid and vacuum switch I found your site and was able to partially figure out what the problem is and at least be able to cold start with no issues

A member nailed it by saying you need to understand how the system works in order to troubleshoot.

A simple spare line coming out of the primer fitting into a jar so you know how the fuel is flowing in both cold starting procedures helped a lot! My first test was simple as described in my starting procedure below. The second test using the key to prime did not produce fuel flow which I will handle in the fall.

I haven’t figured out why the primer isn’t working but will put some energy into in the fall, for now she starts easily and I’m good with it. The primer does click but no fuel comes out when key is on position and when starter motor is spinning
Procedure:

1. Prime bulb
2. Move red lever to prime position (up)
3. Pump ball 2 times
4. Close primer red valve
5. Turn key (no need to push key in for choke)
6. Vroom she starts