OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

[Vic.S]

The following is the answer given on a UK boating forum in response to a question about obtaining owners and workshop manuals ( the same question is actually posted on this forum).

"As this engine is out of service, the copyright is free.
Which is why there is a thriving trade for this manual on CD on EBay.

Type in Evinrude Manual, you will get loads of choice.

I have a friend who runs his Outboard Servicing business off these CDs, they are OK.

Expect to pay about a fiver."​

is this answer correct or was I correct in stating that copyright is owned by Ken Cook and also cautioning the questioner about CDs. Engine in question was a 1977 model

 

[bktheking]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

You were correct, manuals are copyrighted and only fair use if permission is given by th publisher to use the copyrighted material. Selling CD's of scanned material is called "piracy", how fitting being a "boating" forum LOL, I crack myself up.

It's not illegal to scan a manual and keep it for your own personal use as a backup to paper material, the illegal part is resale, it's like anything else. It would be different if it was the factory paper original for sale, that would be legit.

 

[F_R]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

The following is the answer given on a UK boating forum in response to a question about obtaining owners and workshop manuals ( the same question is actually posted on this forum).

"As this engine is out of service, the copyright is free.
Which is why there is a thriving trade for this manual on CD on EBay.

Type in Evinrude Manual, you will get loads of choice.

I have a friend who runs his Outboard Servicing business off these CDs, they are OK.

Expect to pay about a fiver."​

is this answer correct or was I correct in stating that copyright is owned by Ken Cook and also cautioning the questioner about CDs. Engine in question was a 1977 model

I certainly am not a lawyer or judge, but I do know that way back when OMC was still a thriving business, they gave/sold/or otherwise allowed Ken Cook the right to reproduce and sell the literature. Elvis is dead, but I believe his records are still copyrighted by somebody. I could be wrong, if I knew about such things, I'd have a lot more money.

 

[bktheking]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

F_R, Sony BMG owns all of Elvis' music, just like MJ owned the Beatles before his death. Ken Cook would have bought the publishing rights to distribute OMC material, wasn't this subject beat to death a couple of months ago on these forums?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

most of the manuals on ebay are seloc and clymer pirates.

 

[tboydva]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

There was a thread earlier regarding these manuals. I was thinking of chiming in, but sometimes it seems there's no use complaining. I'm in the mood now, so here it goes: I agree totally with paying for what you get (music, movies, etc). I don't even put copyrighted music tracks on my home videos that I put together! I bought a shop manual for my '83 Johnson from Cook. The only thing that fries me a bit is getting a photocopied manual (in which you can barely decipher the pictures). OK, I'll pay the copyright owner, but getting a cheap reproduction for $75 seems a little cheezy to me. My email stating as such to them has gone unanswered. The '95 manual I purchased was a real, bound manual (so in this instance, I got what I paid for). My suggestion is to ask them (if they ever return your email) whether it's a real manual or a "sealed" photocopy with crappy quality. If the latter, I'd buy off ebay. They own the copyright, but for $75 of hard-earned cash, I think they have some obligation to make a faithful reproduction for their customers. My 2c...

 

[NakedDog]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

Leaving the legality issue aside for a moment.....I question the ethics of these manuals in the first place, and us trying to get a hold of one...

It is almost of no cost for a item manufacturer to have their manuals free to download on their website, like many companies already do. In fact, some purchsed items no longer come with a manual, other than a 'quick start guide'. They advise you to visit their website for a .pdf manual download, which in the end actually saves them money.

I believe it is a company with questionable customer service and trying to squeeze every dime they can out of a consumer....but that is my 2 cents worth.

...and yes, Elvis is dead, and so are some of the Beatles....but Michael Jackson bought the rights to some of the Beatles' songs....so what happens now that he's dead???

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

...and yes, Elvis is dead, and so are some of the Beatles....but Michael Jackson bought the rights to some of the Beatles' songs....so what happens now that he's dead???

The Beatles/MJ issue has to do with publishing rights, specifically. MJ's estate now owns those publishing rights.



???

 

[tal]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

I found a manual that covers Johnson/Evinrude 65-78 1.5-35hp and 73-89 48-235hp on a torrent search. Both these pdf's combined are over 200mb. It is of course, a scanned job, but it is an original Johnson/Evinrude manual. It has the picture of a ranger 330V with a Evinrude 150hp on it cruising in a river. My 1985 falls right into the range of the book and has been very helpful.

 

[JB]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

I believe it is a company with questionable customer service and trying to squeeze every dime they can out of a consumer....but that is my 2 cents worth.


You don't seem to have any idea what it costs to write, produce and publish a quality manual for a complex product that the end user is likely to want to maintain himself (or buy quality service for) long after it is out of production.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

I believe it is a company with questionable customer service and trying to squeeze every dime they can out of a consumer....

BRP is ruthless. they certainly are not in business to support old OMC relics they didn't even sell,
they want to sell new motors.

some of the old sterndrive shift cables were $175 retail in 2004
once inventory got under 100 units..... $350
under 50 units $425
the last few were listed on shop.evinrude.com for $700
somebody bought 'em
supply and demand pricing.

be thankful the manuals and parts are available at all.

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

I bought a couple of the Ken Cook manuals and am very happy to have them. The pictures are poor quality and the wiring diagrams are only somewhat helpful because the color coding does not show on the black and white photocopies. Still, I am happy to have them and more than willing to share the information they contain.

Sharing information and copying to share information is not illegal. If is were, libraries would be illegal.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

Sharing information and copying to share information is not illegal

I think you will find that copying publications or even parts of which are subject to copyright is illegal and that includes electronic copies.

My original question was whether or not the rights of the OMC manuals are or are not owned by Ken Cook. If they are then making copies would be illegal under what may be international copyright laws.

 

[F_R]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

I think you will find that copying publications or even parts of which are subject to copyright is illegal and that includes electronic copies.

My original question was whether or not the rights of the OMC manuals are or are not owned by Ken Cook. If they are then making copies would be illegal under what may be international copyright laws.

My ideas on this kind of got lost in the Elvis issue. All I know is that if you wrote to OMC asking for old literature, they referred you to Ken Cook. Even today, BRP does the same. To me that implies that Mr Cook has permission from OMC/BRP, whether it be by purchace, agreement, gift, or whatever.

There seem to be a lot of wannabe copyright lawyers around here. One way to be a real one would be to attend a good university. None of which applies to me. However for the rest of us, here is some good reading for the layman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Copyright_Law

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

My original question was whether or not the rights of the OMC manuals are or are not owned by Ken Cook. If they are then making copies would be illegal under what may be international copyright laws.

Why don't you ask them if they have the copyright? It would be good to know for sure.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

an agreement whether sold, given etc, between OMC and Ken Cook, back when OMC was going under, Ken Cook has the Permission from OMC to publish the books, whether under license or copyright.

tboydva, you are lucky to have that "photocopied manual" they were saved on MICRO FICH, that is why they look photocopied. the micro fich is what the dealer used also. some still have them.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

As pointed out by F R and TD, Ken Cook has the legal right to print and sell OMC manuals. Whether they have this right via outright acquistion of the copyright (how many times can I say "right" in one sentence?!), by license or by some other legal means, is irrelevant - it is known that they have this right.

In the opinion of some, Ken Cook provides a crappy product and charges too much for it. In the opinion of others, the material is well worth the money paid. In the end, however, these opinions don't mean much to Ken Cook - they are the only ones with the legal right to sell them and they apparently sell plenty at the asking prices, so "it is what it is."

Regardless of any of this, my advice to to hunt around for an original, factory manual. I have a bunch of them, all of which I purchased on EBay.



???

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

I am going to just write my own manual..after reading these forums I know everything I need to know now...so Ken cook can use his for toilet paper..just not in a marine toilet. LOL

 

[FZ1]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

I found a manual that covers Johnson/Evinrude 65-78 1.5-35hp and 73-89 48-235hp on a torrent search. Both these pdf's combined are over 200mb. It is of course, a scanned job, but it is an original Johnson/Evinrude manual. It has the picture of a ranger 330V with a Evinrude 150hp on it cruising in a river. My 1985 falls right into the range of the book and has been very helpful.

I've also found those manual torrents but could never find anyone seeding. Any chance you have a link? Or a copy? I know its only Seloc but it would help this old boy sometimes. I can't buy a manual for every outboard I might come across for repairs

Grant

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: OMC manuals. Copyright free or all owned by Ken Cook

If were Harold Lloyd and still alive, I could give permission to Soupy Sales to copy and resell my old silent comedies, but unless such an agreement is recorded as a transaction and the copyright is tranferred to Soupy, then the original copyright (ownership) stays in my name and becomes part of public domain in 3 or 4 decades...unless I renew my copyright (ownership). Once in the public domain, no one can re-buy the copyright (ownership)...it's out there for all. That's knowledge that comes from 30 years in the writing/publishing game...traditional and electronic. Don't know anything about the Cook outfit or their ownership agreement or the quality of their manuals, or taking sides...just stating what I know about it so it might help someone else.