Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

[syellow]

I posted a thread a couple of days ago stating I couldn't get my motor to start. Well I figured out the problem. I needed new fuel lines. I went to walmart and bought a new fuel line and it started! The motor ran for about 45sec and died. I took it down to the lake to mess around some more...

With the fuel line connected to the gas tank, and the screw loose on the cap, it wouldn't start. So it thought it was flooded. I took the fuel line off and after 3 or 4 cranks, it started and ran with the choke held down. When I reconnected the line to the tank, it died?!? Yes the screw was loose. So I disconnected it again, and it started. Then I took the whold cap off and reconnected it, and it still died! Also, there is a red switch on the side of the motor that has something to do with it, but I'm not sure what position it is supposed to be in. Finally, there was one time I had the fuel line connected and it ran. I put it in gear and hulled half way down the lake, and it was running great, and then it died. So...

Does anyone know why it would be dying (Gas is new 93 octane and separate oil reservoir.)?

What is the red switch, and what position should it be in?

The motor is a 1992 Johnson 60hp and the guy said he had the carbs redone in 08. Thank you for your help!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

sounds like a problem in the fuel line--the bulb's valve is bad or something-is it being sucked flat? Maybe a blockage in the fuel pick-up in the tank? Or at the connection? My thoughts are all connected to it running off the hose (just with the gas in the carbs and filter) as opposed to hooked up.
It could be a weak or failed fuel pump. See what happens if you squeeze the bulb when it starts to die.
Do you have a fuel/water seperator? If so, change it. If not, get one. But if you don't have one and you have new gas, then that is not likely the problem.
The red switch is probably the one for pull-starting but I defer to the mechanics to address that.

 

[tal]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

I'll help you with what I think I know. The red switch is a manual choke override for pull starting the motor. People will tell you that it has to be "inline with the body" for it to be in the off position. I have found that if the choke solenoid is mounted level, that 6:00, or 180* is the off position. This is on my particular application which might differ from yours though. Before I knew what mine was, I couldn't get the engine to start without opening the throttle plates all the way manually and cranking the engine. It was getting flooded because the previous owner had it set in the wrong position. I also learned that's why he had a string tied to the throttle shaft to pull the butterflies open while he turned the key.

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

Why did you buy new fuel lines? Were they cracked? Plugged? Why are you taking the fuel line off to start it? I am a little confused. Normally you would connect the fuel line and pump the bulb until it is hard before you try to start it. Does the engine have a cold start lever? You would engage the cold start lever and choke it to start. Once it has started you would disengage the choke but leave the cold start lever engaged until the engine has warmed enough to idle down without stalling.

Did it restart after it died on the lake? Maybe you pulled off the safety lanyard.

Why did it die on the lake? Is the engine over heating? There should be an opening somewhere on the upper part of the engine that squirts water out to ensure the water pump is working. Fuel delivery problem? Was the fuel line bulb soft after it died on the lake? Was the fuel tank vented?

Did the previous owner (PO) run it for you before you bought it? If so, how did it run then?

Be patient. Ask lots of question. There are enough knowledgeable people here to get you though this.

If you are asking about the same problem, it is better to to keep posting to the same thread rather than starting a new one. It ensures continuity of information.

 

[jdsgrog]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

from your other thread, you said that no matter how hard you squeeze the primer, it did not get hard. when you changed the fuel line, did this resolve the issue? If the engine is not running and the primer does not get hard after pumping, you have a carb float problem or a leak somewhere along the fuel line or fuel pump (see if there is any fuel leaking into the pan). if fuel is coming out of the carbs, then it is a float problem and you are flooding the carbs. If there is a leak somewhere, there is a fuel delivery problem

other questions:
1. When the motor runs, does it idle properly or do you need to run on higher idle? (carb adjustment if it has needle valves, clogged jets)
2. When the motor runs, is the motor pumping water? (possible thermostat problem or overheating)
3. Did you do all the diagnostics? (Spark, compression, etc)
4. Do you have a manual for you motor or at the very least a general manual like clymer's or seloc that covers a range of motors?

There are too many variables. Check all your diagnostics first. Follow instructions on adjustments on the Top Secret File thread. And get a manual.

One other thing, not recommended to use 93 octane. Not necessary and in the long run may not benefit the motor due to build up from additives that boost octane.

 

[syellow]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

from your other thread, you said that no matter how hard you squeeze the primer, it did not get hard. when you changed the fuel line, did this resolve the issue?

Yes. The old line was super hard and leaking fuel at almost all of the connections. So I put a whold brand new set up from walmart and this issue was resolved.

If the engine is not running and the primer does not get hard after pumping, you have a carb float problem or a leak somewhere along the fuel line or fuel pump (see if there is any fuel leaking into the pan). if fuel is coming out of the carbs, then it is a float problem and you are flooding the carbs.

Ok, I'm new to having a motor on my boat. If I'm in my boat looking at my motor with the cover off. There is a flat panel in the front of the motor. I saw fuel seeping out the bottom of the cover, so I took it off. Fuel was coming from this area. This is the cover for the carbs I beleve. Would this be the carb float problem you are refering to?


other questions:
1. When the motor runs, does it idle properly or do you need to run on higher idle? (carb adjustment if it has needle valves, clogged jets)

It seems to idle fine when it idles. I don't know how to tell what kind of valves they are.

2. When the motor runs, is the motor pumping water? (possible thermostat problem or overheating)

I see the water coming out the top of the motor. I believe this is working correctly.

3. Did you do all the diagnostics? (Spark, compression, etc)

I held the spark plug wires next to metal and I see they are sparking. Plus it ran for a short time.

4. Do you have a manual for you motor or at the very least a general manual like clymer's or seloc that covers a range of motors?

I didn't get a manual with the boat.

There are too many variables. Check all your diagnostics first. Follow instructions on adjustments on the Top Secret File thread. And get a manual.

One other thing, not recommended to use 93 octane. Not necessary and in the long run may not benefit the motor due to build up from additives that boost octane.

I will not use 93 anymore. Maybe I will just go buy a new gas tank. Two came with the boat, but I'm not sure about the integrity of the cleanliness. My replies are in the quote itself to better answer each individual question. From what I gather, it's a carb float problem... How do I fix this? Is it so easy a caveman can do it? Or do I need to take it to a shop? Thanks

 

[syellow]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

It seems as if the motor is getting too much fuel... When everything is connected, and I pump the bulb, it gets hard. When I turn the key, the motor just spins really fast. A shore fisherman was watching me and he came over and said it was flooded. He said try taking off the fuel line.... This is when it started after a few cranks. I did have the fuel tank vented, and the bulb was hard. But it didn't work that way. It wasn't until I disconnected the line from the fuel tank that it ran. So was I got it started, it seemed as if it was running smooth, so I reconnected it to the gas tank while it was running. This immediately killed it, even though it was vented. I took the whole cap off to and tried again, and it killed it again. It seemed as if it would get flooded every time I connected the hose. Maybe it was a coincidence. Back to the flat cover on the motor (The one that covers the carbs) I took it off while I tried to start it and fuel was pouring out of that area. Not sure if it is supposed to do that or not. Is the compression test the same on a boat as it is a car? I have a car compression tester. Do I just take out each spark plug and crank it to see what each cylinder pressure is? What should the pressure be at for a 60hp Johnson? Thanks again.

 

[jdsgrog]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

You need to get a motor repair manual. I'm not familiar with the 90's motors and won't claim to be an expert in outboards, but with the repair manuals and this forum, I have been able to get 3 motors running. The forums are great, but a repair/maintenance manual will walk you through many of your questions. The Seloc and Clymers manuals are better for beginners as they walk you through the process and give you some basic info on motors. The actual Johnson/Evinrude repair manuals are far superior as it deals with the specific motor, but they assume you have some experience and knowledge about outboards. You can get manuals online for about $30-$60. Worth the investment if you plan to work on the motor yourself.

If fuel is leaking out of the carb and it is a float problem, then you have to take apart the carb, get a rebuild kit, and rebuild it. Basically, in layman's terms, the carb float regulates the fuel delivery to the carb/motor. Though, I am uncertain if this is the issue, it seems pretty clear that you have a fuel delivery problem if you found fuel in the engine pan. It's either there is too much fuel going into the carbs or the fuel lines or fuel pump or some connection is leaking somewhere in which fuel is not being delivered. Pictures would help.

One thing you can check is the spark plugs. Pull them out after the motor runs and see what they look like. If they are black, oily, sootly, and wet, you are running too rich.

One other question, when you ran the motor and boat half way across the lake, and the motor died, were you able to get it started again and get back to the dock? If so, did it die again?

 

[jdsgrog]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

It seems as if the motor is getting too much fuel... When everything is connected, and I pump the bulb, it gets hard. When I turn the key, the motor just spins really fast. A shore fisherman was watching me and he came over and said it was flooded. He said try taking off the fuel line.... This is when it started after a few cranks. I did have the fuel tank vented, and the bulb was hard. But it didn't work that way. It wasn't until I disconnected the line from the fuel tank that it ran. So was I got it started, it seemed as if it was running smooth, so I reconnected it to the gas tank while it was running. This immediately killed it, even though it was vented. I took the whole cap off to and tried again, and it killed it again. It seemed as if it would get flooded every time I connected the hose. Maybe it was a coincidence. Back to the flat cover on the motor (The one that covers the carbs) I took it off while I tried to start it and fuel was pouring out of that area. Not sure if it is supposed to do that or not. Is the compression test the same on a boat as it is a car? I have a car compression tester. Do I just take out each spark plug and crank it to see what each cylinder pressure is? What should the pressure be at for a 60hp Johnson? Thanks again.

As for compression, yes, take the plug out (unhook the plug wires from the other plugs if still in), screw in the compression gauge and turn the motor over a few times. Just be sure the tester has the proper fitting(s). I'm not sure what the proper psi is for that motor, but what's more important is that all the cylinders are within 10 percent of each other. But having said that, I doubt it is the compression.

I'm pretty sure you are getting too much fuel into the carbs. Also, a model number would help.

 

[syellow]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

when the motor died going down the lake, I was able to start it by messing with it. I disconnected the fuel line again and it got me back to the shore. I was also able to start it long enough to put it on the trailer. Seemed like it ran a little better each time it started. Where can I get a manual, and rebuild kit? How much is a rebuild kit? Finally, how much does a shop charge usually to get motor running or the carbs rebuilt? Thanks

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

If the engine floods everytime you put the fuel line on, I am suspecting one of the carburetor floats is stuck open (float is stuck in downward position) allowing the fuel pump to flood that cylinder. An old time trick, that might be worth trying, is to tap the carb bowl with a wrench to jar the float loose. If that doesn't work you will have to tear down the carb. Don't bother with carb kits if the carbs were rebuilt just last year. The parts are still new. Just tear down the carbs and clean them thoroughly. Before you take out the slow speed needles, turn them in all the way until they lightly seat. Note how many turns out they were so you can return them to their original positions when you reassemble. Clean every little orfice.

Another possibility, the fuel pump diaphram is ruptured. The fuel pump is driven by vacumn from one of the cylinders. If the diaphram is ruptured fuel will be drawn directly into that cylinder through the vacumn hose and flood it.

 

[jdsgrog]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

If it is a float issue, find out which carb is flooding the engine. See where the fuel is leaking from. A good tap of the wrench may jar it as oldrudedude says (cheapest fix). To find out if it's a fuel pump issue, you will have to take apart the fuel pump.

You can get manuals at the iboats store or at www.outboardbooks.com. Best investment you can make for a motor. As for a mechanic, it's a matter of finding a good one and they are not cheap from my understanding. But then again, I never went to a marine mechanic (none in my area would even work on my old motors). In all honesty, if you are good with your hands and like tinkering, you should be able to resolve most of the issues yourself with a good manual and this forum. Having some mechanical experience is a plus.

btw, check your personal messages in your account. i sent you one last night concerning a pdf manual.

 

[alzoe]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

Fuel hose connector O-ring might be pulling air. Seems like an air leak. i had similar issue many years ago with my 80's 15hp jonny.You haven't yet convinced me that it's flooding. Did you look at the plugs for wetness?
Try spraying carb cleaner at the connectors(or any potential air leak site) when the motor is trying to die. If it revs up you have found your leak.

 

[dwco5051]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

If it seems to flood every time you pump up the bulb if I am reading your post right. A long with a bad needle or carb float another thing to look at is the primer solonoid. (the thing with the little red lever) Disconnect the outline line from the solonoid and pump up the fuel line bulb with the manual prime lever in the off position. If fuel comes out under these conditions it is bad and will not only flood the engine while priming the fuel bulb but also during running since the fuel pump also pressurizes the inlet side of the solonoid during running.

 

[syellow]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

Well, I have some good news! It worked!! I took it out today and hit the side of the carbs with a wrench and it runs beautiful! I was so happy. Thank you everyone for your help. I do have a few more questions.

1. What should I do to store it in my garage for the winter to protect the motor?
2. Since the carb was stuck, should I pull it apart and clean it?
3. Is the motor brace just for towing? My boat only fits in the garage when it is in the down position and turned. It wont fit with the brace on.
4. Is there a solution I can run through the motor istead of having to pull it apart to clean it?
5. Is there any other tips on proper maintenance, storage, or care of any sort?

Thanks again for all your help! My motor works because of this awesome forum!

 

[jdsgrog]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

That's great to hear! Cheap and simple fix...the best way to go.

As for your questions:

1. Winterize the boat. Go to the FAQ and there is a "Top Secret File". Open it and follow the link for winterizing your boat/motor.
2. If it doesn't get stuck again, it should be fine. Personally, I try to clean the carbs every year I use my boat. Doesn't hurt to do it.
3. As long as the skeg doesn't hit the ground, you can keep the motor down.
4. There are spray carb cleaners out there and you should always use a fuel stabilizer. But nothing cleans a dirty carb like tearing it down and soaking it in a proper carb cleaning solution. If it's running fine, no real need to break the carbs down.
5. Simply, yes. Search the forum and read. Lots out there, too much for this single post.

 

[sdshort]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

Sounds to me like a float is hanging up, or the float pin has some trash in it. Even though the carb was just rebuilt last year, I would go ahead and get a rebuild kit. They are relativly cheap and will probably fix your problem. Good luck

 

[hamburgerman]

Re: Johnson starts, runs, and dies. How do I work my motor?

Sounds like you had some chunk of old fuel line stuck in one of your needle seats. it could be in the bottom of the bowl now and could end up cloging a fuel jet so get em cleaned first thing before you end up with more trouble later (just my 2 cents)