• If this is your first visit to the iboats.com Boating Forums, be sure to check out the FAQ. To post a question or comment, begin by signing up. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Collapse

Help Tip: If you have a question that has not been answered to your satisfaction in the archives, it is always best to start a new thread of your own. By starting your own thread, you will receive the maximum number of views by forum members.

Below are some additional forum policies in hopes of all iboats members will follow, Thank you.

1. Please do not reply to old topics or hijack existing topics. Old topics of a technical nature are like a library book, Please do not write in them.

2. Old topics should be considered archives and used for reference only. Please do not reply to them.

3. Do not take over someone elseís topic (aka hijack) with your own question, even if it is similar. If you have a question that has not been covered to your satisfaction in the archives, it is always best to start a new topic of your own.

4. If you have a question for the original poster (OP) and the topic is over 30 days old, send the OP a PM, he may not even visit the forums any longer, or may not notice your question in the old topic.

5. By starting your own topic, you will receive the maximum number of views by forum helpers that may not even notice your question when itís posted at the end of someone elseís topic. And those answers will be specific to your particular issue.

6. Please do not post to topics that have been inactive for more than 3 months unless you are the original poster. We have very active forums and any topic that remains inactive for that long should be considered "dead". It is especially confusing when there is an entirely new question posted to an old topic.

7. Posting at the end of any topic is considered to be hijacking the original posters topic which in turn subjects the topic to be closed if it continues to happen thus not making it fair to the original poster in the future had for some reason he/she needed to return for additional information or provide an update of the problem solved which is always welcomed within a reasonable amount of time frame.

8. Please note that you should see a red banner pop up near the bottom of each inactive topic asking you not to reply to old topics. The Red banner will read: Please note this topic has been inactive for 90 days. For the best results, please start a new topic.

Thank you all in advance for doing your part in helping iboats run a smooth ship.

Additional forum rules linked below.
http://forums.iboats.com/forum-rules-guidelines-405/
See more
See less

Burning up starter solenoids...why?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts


  • Burning up starter solenoids...why?

    I'm on my 3rd starter solenoid right now within the last 2-3 months. I have a '79 Evinrude V4 85hp outboard. My starter is good, the battery should be fine, so why am I having to replace the starter solenoid again for the third time?

    I have used a volt meter on each solenoid lead while someone would assist and turn the key (starting the motor) to check voltage readings. I get full voltage to the top of the solenoid for the battery lead (obviously) and full voltage to the bottom where for the lead goes to the starter. (12-13 Volts depending on battery charge)

    Here is an assembly picture of the solenoid:
    http://www.**********/_search/images/...p/41494306.png

    There is a ground on the bottom-middle of the solenoid and another lead on the top-middle goes somewhere back to the switch for engaging the solenoid at the key switch. There is also an additional lead on the top "direct to battery" lead that goes back to a rectifier on the opposite side of the motor and the rectifier connects to a terminal lead that goes to the power pack, etc. That's the lead that is back-feeding current up to and over 24v at times. When someone turns the key, everything is fine until they stop turning the key and a backfeed voltage sometimes appears for a split second. Could the rectifier go bad and cause the backfeed?

    My battery is an Everstart Max with over 700CCA. I'm not crazy about the battery but it came with the boat. If it works, I'll just continue to use it for a while until I can get a better one. I just want to resolve the issue of the solenoids burning out or whatever is happening to them.

    Any help is very much appreciated.
    1979 Evinrude 85hp V4 Crossflow (85995R)
    Rebuilt in 2013 - Wiseco Piston Equipped
    1979 Cane Cutter 15.2 (one of few remaining)

    sigpic


  • #2
    Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

    what do you battery cables look like, they can read 13 volts, and only deliver 2 or 3 amps. thus burning up the solenoid. corrosion on connections and cables get nicked and corrode, reduces the power to the solenoid and starter, creat heat. nicked cables corrode from the inside out, i have found cables with only 3 or 4 strands still good.
    FLORIDA GATORS
    TEBOW Country



    Please, NO PM's (Private Messages) regarding boat/engine problems. they will not be answered.
    That is what these forums are for. Post your questions, in the appropriate Forum.

    Comment



    • #3
      Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

      Trying real hard to follow your description, it sounds like you are measuring a voltage surge at one of the yellow rectifier leads? Am I right? Telling us the wire colors might help to follow you.

      Well, I can't explain what you are seeing or know why you are even looking there. The yellow leads to to the alternator and have nothing to do with the starter solenoid except both are connected to the battery. If I read you right, you aren't seeing voltage spikes at the battery (top post on the solenoid).

      Exactly what is happening to your solenoids? Is the primary coil going bad or are the relay contacts going bad?

      Comment



      • #4
        Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

        How many batteries do you have connected on the boat? If you have more than one you could be getting 24Volts through a wiring error.
        Disconnect the positive switching wire from the solenoid and test for voltage with the the starter key turned. You should have only 12Volts.

        Comment



        • #5
          Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

          I'll get some pictures that of the actual motor and post them. that will help answer some of the questions to my questions.

          I'll also look at the cables and connections. Yes, I'm getting over 13volts but I'll check the amp load.
          1979 Evinrude 85hp V4 Crossflow (85995R)
          Rebuilt in 2013 - Wiseco Piston Equipped
          1979 Cane Cutter 15.2 (one of few remaining)

          sigpic

          Comment



          • #6
            Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

            There is a ground on the bottom-middle of the solenoid and another lead on the top-middle goes somewhere back to the switch for engaging the solenoid at the key switch
            I would not be surprised to see a brief high voltage on this lead when the key switch is released, but it would be of no consequence.

            My thoughts at the moment are that you have a very large, in terms of CCA, battery. It may be maintaining a much higher voltage than one with a lower CCA would while the motor is being cranked. This would mean a higher current would be flowing through the solenoid coil. You say 12-13 volts measured at the connection to the starter motor thats significantly higher than I'd expect!

            Possible that would be causing the solenoid coils (if it is the coils, but you have not confirmed that) to burn out.

            Just a theory but clutching at straws rather.

            Fitting good quality replacement solenoids or buying cheapies? Or having to crank for long periods to start?

            Comment



            • #7
              Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

              Silly question, but are you getting solenoids from a marine dealer that are OMC/BRP or comparable?(Sierra or Mallory) Or are you geting solenoids from the auto parts store and the counter person is giving you starter solenoids made for Fords?
              There is a huge difference between automotive and marine everything.

              Comment



              • #8
                Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

                What is the failure mode of the solenoids?

                Are the coils going open?

                Are the coils shorting?

                Are the solenoids actuating (clicking) but not providing a high current path?

                Are they mechanically binding?

                The is really only three things that determine if a solenoid is working properly - the coil circuit, the high current circuit and the mechanical mechanisms. If you can narrow down the manner in which the solenoids are failing, it will be easier to figure out what is going wrong.

                Comment



                • #9
                  Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

                  Just thinking, have you checked your starter draw? High starter draw and cheap solenoid will cause problems.

                  Comment



                  • #10
                    Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

                    There is a huge difference between automotive and marine everything
                    Yes mostly $$$$$$

                    Comment



                    • #11
                      Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

                      Originally posted by Vic.S View Post
                      Yes mostly $$$$$$
                      AND knowing what the difference is and how to adapt it. Besides the $$$ part that is.

                      Comment



                      • #12
                        Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

                        Originally posted by McGR View Post
                        What is the failure mode of the solenoids?

                        Are the coils going open?

                        Are the coils shorting?

                        Are the solenoids actuating (clicking) but not providing a high current path?

                        Are they mechanically binding?

                        The is really only three things that determine if a solenoid is working properly - the coil circuit, the high current circuit and the mechanical mechanisms. If you can narrow down the manner in which the solenoids are failing, it will be easier to figure out what is going wrong.
                        WOW! Tons of questions and good information here. I know practically nothing on most all questions!

                        I do not know what coils are in the solenoid. I can't take it apart to see what's failing. All I know is, the choke will click if you push in on the key and I believe you can hear a faint click without the choke. I'd have to check it again to see but it's pretty quiet and doesn't make much noise unless you push the key in to choke the carb. THen you can hear the choke engage.

                        I am buying OMC parts from a marine dealer, no automotive parts. The last two solenoids I bought have been Sierra 18-5808 which replaces OMC 3954519, 58708 and Mercury 47886.

                        Sorry if I cannot help give you better info on how I know they are failing. I just know the current path is not getting to the starter post on the bottom.

                        If I recall, I can get 12.74 volts on the bottom pole to the starter when the key is turned over.


                        The battery has 700cca and no, I am only using a single battery. My boat mechanic told me the battery was too small but would work. It's not a deep cycle battery and no, there are not long periods of cranking. The motor usually fires up pretty quick even when cold.

                        I have not checked the pull on the starter because I do not know how. I would be glad to do so if someone can explain how....


                        Here are some pictures that show the motor.



                        1979 Evinrude 85hp V4 Crossflow (85995R)
                        Rebuilt in 2013 - Wiseco Piston Equipped
                        1979 Cane Cutter 15.2 (one of few remaining)

                        sigpic

                        Comment



                        • #13
                          Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

                          i don't see anything wrong. sorry.
                          FLORIDA GATORS
                          TEBOW Country



                          Please, NO PM's (Private Messages) regarding boat/engine problems. they will not be answered.
                          That is what these forums are for. Post your questions, in the appropriate Forum.

                          Comment



                          • #14
                            Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

                            Check the integrity of the rubber insulator under the clamp. Had a solenoid problem when the insulator was not fitted correctly. I still don't understand why but when the insulator and clamp were correctly fitted it worked fine. I suspect clamping incorrectly caused distortion of the case.

                            Comment



                            • #15
                              Sign up today
                              Re: Burning up starter solenoids...why?

                              Let's not get confused by the choke, althugh that is an indication that you at least have power to the key switch.

                              OK, from what I've been able to gather from your testimony, your starter solenoid is clicking. That means the primary coil in the solenoid is good and all the other wiring up to that point is also good.

                              If the solenoid clicks and the starter doesn't run, there are only a few possibilities:

                              1. The relay contacts within the solenoid are bad. That is what you seem to be suspecting. However, that truly is a rare thing to happen, and nothing outside causes it. Well, I suppose a shorted starter could but it wouldn't work after you replaced the solenoid either. Which brings up another possibility:

                              2. Are you 100% sure the problem isn't the starter and not the solenoid? Have you checked the voltage at the bottom post and/or the starter terminal when it ISN'T WORKING? Checking it when it works doesn't tell us much. If you have somewhere around 12 volts at the starter AND it dosn't crank, the starter is at fault.----OR it isn't grounded. Which brings up another possibility:

                              3. Grounds. Are you 100% sure you don't have a grounding problem? That is responsible for an awful lot of starting problems and the solenoid mfrs are getting rich replacing perfectly good solenoids.

                              4. 12.7 volts at the bottom terminal doesn't sound right. Is the starter running when you are seeing that voltage? It certainly should be. If it isn't, see #2 and 3. Something less than 12 volts is the norm with the starter cranking. You have to catch it when it is dead and do your measurements then.

                              If you can answer these specific questions, I think we can get to the bottom of this.

                              BTW, intermittant starter problems are common. By that I mean dead today and OK tomorrow. That goes along with high voltage at the terminal when it is supposed to be cranking, but is dead.

                              Comment


                              Working...
                              X