Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Clippership821

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My magneto is dead and I can't figure out why. I've got 1 ohm resistance on the primary and 6000 ohms on the secondary. Is that within specs? I don't know. Points look good. Just changed the condenser. The cap is old but it's not in bad shape. Polished up the terminals in the cap. Rotor seems ok. I'm at a loss....thanks
 

F_R

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

My magneto is dead and I can't figure out why. I've got 1 ohm resistance on the primary and 6000 ohms on the secondary. Is that within specs? I don't know. Points look good. Just changed the condenser. The cap is old but it's not in bad shape. Polished up the terminals in the cap. Rotor seems ok. I'm at a loss....thanks

First thing you need to do is isolate the trouble between the magneto portion and the distributor portion.

Check for spark off the coil button with the distributor cap removed. You should get a strong spark there. If not, you have to revisit what you have already done and find out what you did wrong or are ignoring.

If you have spark off the coil but not off the plug wires, the problem is in the distributor portion. Probably the rotor is arcing through to the shaft.

Your coil resistance readings are OK. However, the spark may be arcing through the side of it to the case.

EDIT: Disconnect the kill wire while troubleshooting the mag.
 

Clippership821

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Thanks F R. Can that be done on the bench or do I need to put it back on the motor to check that spark off the coil? It's sitting on the bench right now.

No cracks in the coil. Looks good.
 
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F_R

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Thanks F R. Can that be done on the bench or do I need to put it back on the motor to check that spark off the coil? It's sitting on the bench right now.

No cracks in the coil. Looks good.

Absolutely, on the bench. Grab the mounting bracket in your vise if you have one. Make sure you have the wire connected from the breaker plate to the screw on the side.
 

Clippership821

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Hey F R. I checked to see if I've got spark off the coil...which I do. But I wouldn't call it a strong spark. not visible and Barely lights up my spark tester when I spin it. The points are used but not pitted. I'm waiting for new to come in tomorrow. Thanks
 

F_R

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Hey F R. I checked to see if I've got spark off the coil...which I do. But I wouldn't call it a strong spark. not visible and Barely lights up my spark tester when I spin it. The points are used but not pitted. I'm waiting for new to come in tomorrow. Thanks

It should go whap! whap! whap! with a 1/4" spark, turning it by hand at about one or two turns per second.
 

Clippership821

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Well it's definitely not doing that! Glad too, I had my finger on it once while I was turning it and got bit. Coil shot?
 

coolguy147

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

clean the points with 400-600 grit paper
 

R.Johnson

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Pull the coil out of it's housing. It is not uncommon to find a hole burned through on the side of the coil. There should be a thin plastice sheet on each end of the coil. That helped prevent this from happening. The later engines came with these.
 

Clippership821

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Had the coil out. No holes burnt through it. Doesn't smell fried. Ohms out. Didn't see it sparking through to the housing either. Could it be in the magneto shaft assembly?
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Lights up the spark tester?? If you're using a bulb type tester, don't! You need a spark tester whereas you can set a 1/4" gap on that magneto. As FR states, the spark should jump that gap with a real strong blue lightning like WHAP!

Strong spark off the coil button, BUT nothing when assembled = bad rotor. NOTE that there are two rotors that look similar but are not interchangeable. Your rotor would be part number 580260.
 

Clippership821

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Where do I get me one of those spark testers? Do They sell 'em on iboats.com?
If it doesn't jump like lightning then what? Bad coil? Coils run a $100 that's why I want to make sure... Thanks
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

That'll check one plug wire at a time OR in your case, that coil via the coil button. You can also make a spark tester as follows.

(Spark Tester - Home Made)
(J. Reeves)

A spark tester can be made with a piece of 1x4 or 1x6, drive a few finishing nails through it, then bend the pointed ends at a right angle. You can then adjust the gap by simply twisting the nail(s). Solder a spark plug wire to one which you can connect to the spark plug boots, and a ground wire of some kind to the other to connect to the powerhead somewhere. Use small alligator clips on the other end of the wires to connect to ground and to the spark plug connector that exists inside of the rubber plug boot.

Using the above, one could easily build a spark tester whereas they could connect 2, 4, 6, or 8 cylinders all at one time. The ground nail being straight up, the others being bent, aimed at the ground nail. A typical 4 cylinder tester follows:


..........X1..........X2

.................X..(grd)

..........X3..........X4
 

F_R

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Where do I get me one of those spark testers? Do They sell 'em on iboats.com?
If it doesn't jump like lightning then what? Bad coil? Coils run a $100 that's why I want to make sure... Thanks

Spark testers are nice, and almost a necessity for serious working on outboards. But for what you are doing at the moment, you don't need one. You can check for spark off the coil simply by laying a screwdriver against the housing and 1/4" away from the terminal. Or if you don't have 3 hands, rig up a piece of wire from one of the screw holes and bend it so it pokes 1/4" from the trminal.

Now back to the problem at hand. You either have a coil problem or you have a breaker problem which could include a shorted condenser.

You insist the coil looks good and has no arcing. So, let's assume it is good for now. That leaves the breakers assembly. The first thing you need to do is be sure the breakers contacts are absolutely clean, shiny, and gapped correctly. I always take them apart and polish each contact individually. Even oil from your fingers can foul them. Gap them to be open .020" at their widest opening or use the timing marks (better).

OK, you have done that now, so let's check them electrically. Do you have an ohmmeter capable of reading very low resistances? One that can tell the difference between one ohm and half an ohm? Not all can. If you don't have such a meter move on to the next step. But if you do have such a meter, disconnect the breaker plate wire from the magneto stud and connect your meter between the wire terminal and breaker plate ground. Slip the belt pulley on the shaft and rotate it slowly while observing your meter. It should read zero ohms when either set of points is closed and infinity when both are open. By zero, I mean zero--not .4 or .6, ---zero. You probably won't get true infinity, the difference represents condenser leakage. They all leak some. If you suspect that it leaks too much, they are cheap and easy to just replace. The change between zero and infinity should occur just as the timing marks align. If they are off a bit, that's due to error in points gap.

Moving on, once you have done all that, you can assume the breaker assembly is good to go. Now it has to be connected to the coil in order to do anything. That connection is through the stud on the side of the case. Remember how you had to polish the points shiny bright? All the parts of the stud connection have to be the same way. Sand or wire brush the screw, under the screw head, threads, nuts, wire terminals. When you put it together, you want to be sure electriciy can get through the connection without being blocked by non-conductive corrosion. ALSO, you do NOT want the electricity to be able to get to the housing. That means make sure the insulating washers are in good shape and installed correctly.

If you have done all that and not taken short cuts or assumptions, you should have a strong spark off the coil.

If you still do not have spark, either the coil is bad or there is a problem with installation. There is not much you can do wrong with installation, but make sure the laminations are in direct contact with the laminations in the housing. Make sure the ground wire is secure.

Determing whether a coil is good or bad without a tester is mostly a process of elimination. Eliminate the oher possibilities as I just described, and if you still don't have spark, it's gotta be the coil. I'm assuming you aren't ignoring something stupid like bad bearings allowing the armature to drag on the magnets or full of rust or other stupid obvious things.

Whew! You just got your diploma from Magnetos 101.
 

Clippership821

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

Thanks F R! It's "whappin'" like crazy! Joe Reeves and you are the "Godfathers" of my engine. Would not be where I'm at with her without your help. Tune up set should be in today. You should post the last one on the FAQ. That's excellent info. Not much out there on these real oldies.
 

Clippership821

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Re: Magneto is dead on 1961 Johnson Seahorse 75hp

To F R and Joe Reeves. Just wanted to say thank you again for the help on getting "the Queen" going again. Put on a new rotor like you said, Joe. Timed her out and she's startin' up and runnin' like a sewing machine again. Had a lot of fun with her this weekend... a big thanks!
 
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