1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

[floater12]

Hello everyone...! I have a little issue... I have an 1977 evinrude 140 hp outboard. bought the engine with un-known condition. replaced coils, stator, regulator, gaskets, control box for boat, and power pack. Now got it to fire and run, but i have to have the lever all the way up on the control box to start and maintain running it. When i let the lever down it dies right out and is a bit hard to start again. usually have to choke it and then put lever all the way up again. I know the lever control timing right..? Well i see it putting timing all the way forward to keep it running. Any ideas on whats wrong. Also last thing. motor revs fine by moving butterflies manualy, but when i put it into gear it makes a clicking noise and barely moves forward, if i take the little lever off the throttle and move the gear selector manually it goes right into gear. I've been looking in the manual and cant seem to figure this one out. Thanks in advance, Bill.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

Hello everyone...! I have a little issue... I have an 1977 evinrude 140 hp outboard. bought the engine with un-known condition. replaced coils, stator, regulator, gaskets, control box for boat, and power pack. Now got it to fire and run, but i have to have the lever all the way up on the control box to start and maintain running it. When i let the lever down it dies right out and is a bit hard to start again. usually have to choke it and then put lever all the way up again. I know the lever control timing right..? Well i see it putting timing all the way forward to keep it running. Any ideas on whats wrong. Also last thing. motor revs fine by moving butterflies manualy, but when i put it into gear it makes a clicking noise and barely moves forward, if i take the little lever off the throttle and move the gear selector manually it goes right into gear. I've been looking in the manual and cant seem to figure this one out. Thanks in advance, Bill.

The small lever on the controls has nothing to do with timing. It's merely a throttle for cold starting which allows you to open the throttle just a bit for warm-up. The control box, by design, should not allow you to put the outboard in gear with the warm-up lever engaged. Sounds like carb rebuilding is in order. Especially since you purchased it in unknown condition. Never operate the outboard over 1500 rpms on the muffs. There is no back pressure on the exhaust and it can "run away" on you. If it runs away it can, and most likely will, self destruct. Leave the control box cables unhooked and save that for last. Get the outboard running correctly first. The cables for the control box will need to be adjusted after the outboard is fine tuned. Take it in steps. Just my opinion. Check compression........ should be 100+ psi and even on all cylinders. Confirm spark...... should jump a 7/16" gap on all four cylinders using an adjustable spark tester which is available at your local automotive dept. What manual do you have?

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

Sounds like you have thrown a bunch of expensive parts at the motor, now it's time to spend some time diagnosing what's wrong. Kind of *** backwards, but I guess it can work. I would suggest starting by getting an OEM (NOT aftermarket) shop manual. You can get one here at iboats or Ken Cook or perhaps EBay. As was pointed out, the fast idle lever has zero effect on timing and racing the motor with no load is an invitation to disaster.

Then try here for a start:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=188767

Then use your shop manual, which should have a logical procedure for checking various conditions.

Have you tried squeezing the primer bulb when on the water and giving throttle. If power improves while pumping the bulb, it's a likely fuel supply problem?

I hope you kept the parts you replaced, since they are all probably fine!

 

[floater12]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

I put parts on because there were none. Didnt cost me a thing and they were all brand new. has spark just fine, getting gas, newer carbs/rebuilt. Followed schematic to the t and also new wiring. control box is wired and on boat correctly. it will start, but only if the lever is lifted and left there. following the cable back to the motor is leading me to another lever where, inbetween the stator/generator is the timing components. this leads me to believe that i am advancing the timing by leaving the lever in the upward position seeming how when i move it, it does move the entire timing advance deal forward which is the only way it stay running. My manual is one from a boat place near me, oem manual. not to informative. if i disconnect the lever on control box and leave the timing lever in the farthest position out, then it will stay running and rev when needed on command with no hesitation. So my question here is why...is it doing this and why cant i get an idle when i put lever on timing back into original position. Other than that 105 psi across the board, fuel is getting to it just fine. Any help would be appreciated. My other boat motors do not seem to be like this...

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

The lever on the control box has a purpose ... fast idle until motor has warmed up, then moved down. The is no "timing lever" under the hood ... I'm not sure what you're talking about with that. If you have a "shop manual" (not an owners manual) specific to your motor, you would not say it was "not to informative". Shop manuals do assume that you have a good basic understanding of simple shop procedures, but generally give a thorough description of the various systems and procedures and proper nomenclature for the various parts of the motor. Parts lists are generally available on-line at BRP's website.

Have you done a link & sync? Are you sure carbs are internally clean? As I suggested above, an OEM shop manual will give logical troubleshooting procedures.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

Some photo's of what your describing would be more than helpful. Can you post a couple?

Here's a parts manual.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977...002QQitemZ120269206162QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Here's a service manual.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977...010QQitemZ200073398632QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V


What is your model number? Take a close look at the controls diagram below. Is the part your referring to #23 ? This is the warm up lever. With you talking about seeing the timer base moving, I'm wondering if maybe you have the two swapped on the outboard end of the cables. If I were you, I'd temporarily disconnect them until I'd taken care of my powerhead issues and get this thing to perform as it should. You can work on the controls afterwards as stated above. The controls are not needed until then. Take one problem at a time. Much easier.

As suggested above via Wilde1j, the BRP website offers parts diagrams for you outboard. Follow these instructions to view them:

O.K........ Click here............ http://www.brp.com/en-US/Related.Products/Parts.htm

Now....... Under the "Parts Heading" click on "Visit the site now".

Next...... Click on the green check mark in the box located in the top left hand corner and select "View Parts Catalogs"

Now....... Click on the "Go" button beside the box, again in the upper left hand corner of your screen, that says "Evinrude". (Johnson owners need to change this to Johnson from the drop down menu first)

Now...... Select the appropriate folders for your year, horsepower, and model number to view the parts lists and exploded diagrams.

 

[Randyg123]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

I am not sure about the 140, but the warm-up lever on my 1975 135 advances the timing. Not much throttle activity.

I was (and am still) going through problems with my idle and starting situation. The link-n-sync must be done and also you must confirm your idle is set correct. Mine is 650 while in gear in the water (That's about 1100 if on muffs). Also confirm the WOT timing and make sure your low-end timing is set per manual recommendations.

Is there a START mark on your throttle cam and if so does it line up with the cam follower when your start lever on the controller is full up? That was the biggest issue I had with my old controller even with a new throttle cable. there was too much play in the where the fixed trunnion mounted into the well on the controller and about 50% of the warm-up levers action was used up just by the whole cable moving in and out of the controller. When I fixed this, I was able to get my cam follower to line up with the START mark on the cam. I went from 5-10 mnutes to get her started to starting after only a few cranks after I did that.

You shouldn't be able to put the controller into gear with the warm-up lever up. It has to be put back down to be able to shift. I assume this prevents shifting while the rpms are too high.

Again, the 140 setup may be different from mine but this should bump your post back up to give it another chance to be caught by someone knowledgable with that motor who can assist further.

No need to toss in the towel just yet. Good luck

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

This is an interesting discussion, but Randyg123, is correct on the timing movement.

When the warm up lever is at the top of its arc, it gives a little throttle and a lot of timing advance. In fact, it does just about what QuikStart does, just does it mechanically.

I would suggest that anyone who may be persuaded otherwise, should take the cover off the engine, put the warm up lever down and then up and watch what is moving.

 

[Benny1963]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

my warm up lever on my 150 advances timeing with a little carb plate opening , for cold start .you are going to have to slowly go through
whole link in sink and check carbs idle timeing wot timeing the whole 9 yards if ya want it to run right,the manual is the inly way to go or you could get a mech to do it .i am having mine done ,so my wot can be set in tank
but i usually do it my self my mech want 100 to link in sink set timeing and sevice lower while he has it and do some throttle cable adjustments .
i usuall y do mine but for 100 he is very quick he knows my motor and
i get my boat back i 1 hour and i dont have to push it to 4800 on my trailer
the joe reeves method of timeing works but must be verifyed on the water

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

This is an interesting discussion, but Randyg123, is correct on the timing movement.

When the warm up lever is at the top of its arc, it gives a little throttle and a lot of timing advance. In fact, it does just about what QuikStart does, just does it mechanically.

I would suggest that anyone who may be persuaded otherwise, should take the cover off the engine, put the warm up lever down and then up and watch what is moving.

Sure enough, I stand corrected. Ezeke and Randy, you guys are correct. The warm up lever does indeed fully advance the timing while opening the throttle just a bit. I suppose I should have know this. I just never payed much attention to it.

 

[wavrider]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

TTT

Randy sounds like you learned alot on that old 135.

These old v-4 are a bear to start cold, everything has to be correct, timing, link n sync, fuel flow, and one I did not see mentioned was 300 rpm cranking to get the ignition to fire correctly. Good fully charged battery and clean connections.

You are about to get that 140 going right, get that link n sync done, some cable adjustments, and it should fire right up for you.

Randy I still have yet to get that Michelob cap in my remote to take up the slack on the cable, family keeping me to busy to get a chance to work on the 85hp. thanks for the tip.

 

[big dreamer racing]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

I have the same engine, as others have corrected the warm up lever DOES move the timing base and moves the throttle "cam" against the carb(s) throttle lever, if "sinked" properly the first line on the "cam" should line up with the carb throttle lever roller. I have problems with mine running in water, on muffs it idles fine, like today idled great, went into gear idling, shifted back to neutral & idled. Go to the lake after 10 tries it starts & idles but after running shift to neutral it dies, especially if full throttled. I sometimes feel like throwing overboard also, but it's to heavy to lift off the transom.

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

9 out of 10 times the symptoms you describe mean dirty idle jets. If it were mine I'd be seriously considering that as your problem.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

I agree with iwombat.

The problem with the idle circuit does not end with the jets. Beyond the jets, the fuel has to enter the carburetor throat through tiny capillaries in the rear floor of the throats, just beyond the throttle plates. These are easily clogged by gel. Sometimes you can clear the circuit with compressed air and aerosol gumout. When the circuit is clear, you can see the liquid spraying up through the floor of the carburetor if you hold the plates open.

Visualize the problem in this way: the throttle plates are closed; The pistons are trying to pull fuel through the carburetor body; The only fuel inlet behind the throttle plates is from the idle circuit.

 

[Randyg123]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

....... my mech want 100 to link in sink set timeing and sevice lower while he has it and do some throttle cable adjustments .
i usuall y do mine but for 100 he is very quick he knows my motor and
i get my boat back i 1 hour and i dont have to push it to 4800 on my trailer...........

You're killing me! I had to pay over $400 for the same work

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

I guess I should have specified idle capillaries. That's precisely what I meant. I tend to lump that all together as "idle jets". Anyway, I seriously think your idle circuits have issues.

 

[guy74]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

I agree with iwombat.

The problem with the idle circuit does not end with the jets. Beyond the jets, the fuel has to enter the carburetor throat through tiny capillaries in the rear floor of the throats, just beyond the throttle plates. These are easily clogged by gel. Sometimes you can clear the circuit with compressed air and aerosol gumout. QUOTE]

What he said!!

 

[bob01081969]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

I don't know where your at but if you do throw in the towel let me know I love the V4 Rudes and a man can never have enough.

cheers

 

[woody66912]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

when you lift the warmup lever you advance idle timing and crack the throttle plates get engine to idle at 1000 to 1100 [in garbae can] turn idle stop screw to touch block then readjust throttle cable.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: 1977 140 hp evinrude ready to throw in towel.

Link and synch and carb / fuel issues is my opinion.