Resolved - 1963 75hp Selectric Slipping

yorab

Ensign
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Jul 6, 2002
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958
For clarification: this is the Selectric shift, not the hydro-electric. All electromagnetic and no solenoids.

Just finished playing around with a cooling system issue and I took 'er for a ride up the river. I noticed that the forward gear is slipping under heavy load. This only happens on a hard hole shot or when I give it near-full-throttle once planning. No heavy thud or anything, it just seems like it slips into neutral and the rpms go up. If I ease up onto plane, no issue. Once on plane, if I keep it to 3500 rpms or so, no slipping.

​I rebuilt the motor and have about 10 hours or so on it. I never noticed this problem before the rebuild or during the 10 hours after the rebuild--until my last test run. The lower unit components all looked good during my rebuild. I have a ton of pictures from my lower unit rebuild if that helps diagnose the issue. Just ask if you want to see pics of something.

​Here is what I had time to do last weekend:

​1) I looked at the gear oil. Even though it only had about 2 hours on it, it was milky (pic below). I believe that the problem there was a wonky fill screw seal. I changed the oil and then did a test run on the river. Slipped right from the beginning with a hard hole shot.

Gear Oil.jpg

​2) I disconnected the knife connectors and tested the coils. I got 7.9 ohms for one of them and 8.3 ohms for the other. I believe that this is close enough to the spec of 8.0 ohms.

​3) I applied 12v from the battery to each of the coil leads, one at a time. When I did, I could hear a slight clicking sound in the lower unit as the electromagnets engaged the springs. I also could spin the prop in one direction freely, but not the other direction for each lead tested. I did notice on one of the tests that I was able to turn the prop clockwise (when looking toward the bow) about 1/8 of a turn before it locked in. Not sure if that means anything.

4) I marked the prop to check for a spun hub. After the first test, the hub seems to have spun just a little bit (pic below). Or, perhaps it spun a lot and coincidently happened to end up very close to the original line.

Prop 1.jpg

​I did another test run and looked at the lines again:

Prop 2.jpg

​It seems to me that the hub is slipping slightly, but I don't believe that this is the cause of the perceived gear slipping issue because a hub that slips a few degrees probably would not be very noticeable, and my problem is indeed very noticeable. It's unlikely that the lines ended up so close to the original lines by coincidence after two tests. Regardless, I replaced the prop with another that I had, but I didn't get time to do another test run. I will do that next weekend.

​Can anybody determine anything from this information? Are there other procedures that I should follow to trace the problem source?
 

Chinewalker

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Aug 19, 2001
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8,902
Prop hub marks are indicative of a problem. Maybe not THE problem, but a problem none-the-less. You're using the correct Type C for electric shift units, yes?
 

jbuote

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Aug 17, 2016
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Hey yorab,

​This reminded me a little of another post I read a while back, and while it may NOT be the issue for you, thought I'd point it out anyway as food for thought.

​Obviously, you should first test run with the different prop as you plan to. I'm no expert, but I agree that it's unlikely the marks are so close together after 2 separate runs to have the hub slipping be the entire issue, but you never know.. lol

Of course, please heed the advice of others before this....

​The other post I mention had an issue with the spring on the prop shaft and that needed to be repaired.
​Again, I do not know if this is contributing to your issue whatsoever, but for your reference and review:

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...rward-gear-on-select-40-v4-75-80-85-90-100-hp

​For whatever that might be worth.. lol
 

yorab

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Jul 6, 2002
Messages
958
Thanks jbuote. I'll keep in mind that it could be lowered friction between the shaft and spring. But first, I'll try to rule out other issues. I like F_R's advice in there about direct-wiring the forward lead to the battery. If the problem surfaces, then it MUST be in the lower unit and is probably the low friction issue discussed in that link that you posted. I'll try that next weekend.

​And of course this applies only if I am using a known good prop, which I will use.
 
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F_R

Supreme Mariner
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Jul 7, 2006
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28,195
If you can see evidence of slipping clutches by looking at the parts, you are a better man than I am. OK, you are on the right track. Checking the prop hub certainly was the first thing to do. Yours would seem to be ok, unless you are lucky (?) enough to stop slipping at the same place. Hot-wiring directly between the battery and green wire is a good voltage test. An alternate would be to check the voltage at the green wire with the shifter in forward gear (knife connectors NOT disconnected). Should show near battery voltage.

There is a member here that says he can fix the slipping clutch parts. But he doesn't give away his trade secret. I guess that's understandable.
 

interalian

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Jul 23, 2009
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There is a member here that says he can fix the slipping clutch parts. But he doesn't give away his trade secret. I guess that's understandable.

I saw somewhere it was as simple as putting a slight 'tooth' on the inside of the spring (deglazing) to aid in it gripping the hub, but the process escapes my recall. I guess if the interface is too smooth, the spring essentially hydroplanes rather than gripping, like a tire with too little tread.
 

jimmbo

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I am speculating, but it sounds like a Deglazing Hone is used to recondition the spring. The Forward Hub has a knurled pattern, perhaps a refreshing is done to it as well
 

F_R

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Hey, I just looked at your pictures again, and am not so sure it isn't a slipping prop hub. It seems like you marked the brass center hub and the rubber cushion. How do you know the cushion isn't spinning in the propeller? Maybe you should repeat the test with all 3 sections marked. Actually, you are doing it the hard way anyhow. Scribe a mark on the plastic prop nut, aligned with a mark on the propeller. Since the prop nut is keyed to the shaft, if anything moves, it will move in relation to the prop itself. Besides, you don't have to pull the prop to do it that way. Just tilt it up and look. And do it again if any doubt.
 

yorab

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958
Ok, I had a chance to run another prop and I marked it the not-stupid way (thanks F_R). The prop was fine but I still had some slipping under heavy load. I then disconnected the forward coil and hardwired it to the battery. I still had slipping :blue:

​I nailed about 20-30 hard hole shots to collect enough data points, and it slipped while hardwired about 3-4 times. So there is some slipping in the lower unit, but it is not drastic yet. Reading some other entertaining forum threads makes me think that the spring is slipping on the hub. ​I guess I'll disassemble the lower unit and take a look some time in the next month or so.

I can't remember--is there a complete seal kit for this lower unit? Should I replace all seals? (the current ones have about 12 hours of run time on them and I won't have access to a decent press this time)
 

yorab

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BTW, I see that I'm a Master Chief Petty Officer and an Ensign. Do I get to take home both pay checks?
 

jimmbo

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BTW, I see that I'm a Master Chief Petty Officer and an Ensign. Do I get to take home both pay checks?

I'm Captain and Vice Admiral. I guess if I'm going to be in charge of something, Vice, is as good as it can get:D
 

yorab

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I finally have time to look at this again. When I got in there, I noticed that the leads for each EM coil have broken insulation right by where the nylon retainer is in the lower case. The leads must make a sharp 90 degree bend there and since the leads are so old, I guess it's no surprise that the insulation split.

I have some shrink tubing that I could use there. Would that suffice or would I need some sort of goop that cures at those spots? The shrink tubing would keep the leads from shorting to the case but I'm not sure if I need something more fluid-tight to keep the lead from "leaking" power when energized.

BTW, I don't believe that this caused my original issue with the forward gear slipping. I'm almost certain about the cause of the slipping but I'm too embarrassed to write about it now. I will divulge it after I get this thing put back together completely.
 

F_R

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The only thing important there is that the bare wires not touch any metal part (short to ground)****. "Leaking" to the fluid is not a concern. Hey, the knife connectors are submerged in oil too. I suppose it could be an issue if the unit was full of salt water, but you aren't going to let that happen, right?

Can't wait to hear the rest of the story.

*****EDIT: Or to each other
 
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yorab

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Ok, I used the shrink tubing keep the bare wires from shorting. Checks out at 8.0 and 8.1 ohms respectively. I still need to finish the reassembly tomorrow.

​Just curious, why does the service manual say to coat the gearcase head screws in sealant? These screws have an o-ring under the heads which should seal the screw holes. The gearcase head itself is not threaded--only the coil inside is threaded, but there is no reason to seal the screws inside the coil threads. The area between the coil and gearcase head will fill with oil anyway. Seems unnecessary to coat those threads.
 

F_R

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Without digging out a manual, isn't it saying to apply sealant to the screw heads / o-rings area?
 

yorab

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Hmmm...I think I may have this wrong. The quote is, "Dip each screw in Perfect Seal No. 4 thread lubricant." Was Perfect Seal more of an anti-seize than a sealant? If so, it makes sense. For comparison, that same quote (or very similar) is used for the water pump housing screws and for the gearcase-to-exhaust housing screws.
 

F_R

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OMC (BRP) Gasket Sealing Compound is the same as Perfect Seal No.4 If you were to take it literally, and "dip" the screw threads in it, you would be hard pressed to keep it off the o-ring area. Unless it was a miserly dip.
 
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