1977 70hp Johnson wont idle, wont rev

JCurry2885

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Jul 20, 2017
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Hello guys,

​I bought a 1989 vip fish/ski boat about 2 months ago that came with a 1977 Johnson 70hp outboard. When I first fired the engine it seems to run decent on muffs, but once going to the lake it would fall on its face, and not rev or have any power with throttle. Well after the first lake trip I brought the thing home and began checking everything out. Compression reads 118-120-125 from top to bottom, that was the first thing I checked. I found that I had an intermittent firing issue, and that the stator, and 2 of the 3 coils were out of spec. So I went ahead and purchased a new cdi 6 amp stator, 3 new cdi coils, a new cdi powerpack, as the original looked to be in terrible shape, and a new cdi rectifier since the battery wasn't charging after the new stator install. Also put in 3 new champion spark plugs at this time. Needless to say I now have great spark, and all SEEMS to be well in that department. After all the new parts were installed I still have the same issue. So I pulled the carbs off, and did the best cleaning on them I could. I did NOT remove the welch plugs, and I couldn't eve get the jets out as they were kind of stripped, and I didn't have the proper screw driver. The carbs looked great inside upon inspection, and I sprayed carb cleaner in each hole, and ran a piece of wire in each jet as well. I performed a link/sync to the best of my ability on the carbs, and they all seem to open and close at the same time. A few notes - the motor will idle if you bump up the idle speed a bit, but it does sound like it is missing. Will not low speed idle. Motor wont even try to start hot or cold if you don't choke it, and it is sneezing backfiring like it is running lean. I have also installed a new primer ball, and fuel pump. If you try to free rev the engine it just boggs down a lot, and kinda pops back. The thing does seem to smoke a lot as well when you rev it some. I'm running 50:1 ratio, and the tank just had 18 gallons of 93 octane put in it with new synthetic 2 cycle oil. Carbs still need to be rebuilt? Blown head gasket? I didn't see any evidence of water on the plugs I don't think, other than 2 of them seem almost new after about 10 minutes of run time if that matter.

Thank you!!!
 

flyingscott

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I would go back to the carbs and give them a good soaking and a quality rebuild kit.
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Spark (w/all spark plugs removed) should jump a 7/16" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP! Does it?

Compression is normally higher on those three cylinder engines. Check the s/plugs for small traces of water. Check the head bolt torque which should be 18 to 20 foot pounds.... torque the bolts gradually if needed in the following sequence whereas each number is a head bolt.

5.....6
1.....2
4.....3
8.....7 <-- Continue on in an ever widening clockwise circular motion.

Spark plugs should be Champion QL77JC4 plugs gaped at either .030 (long life) or .040 (strong spark)

The buggered up high speed jets (if buggered) may present a problem as brass filings caused by using the wrong tool in attempting to remove them could have been drawn inside that would result in a restriction.... however you did say that you used a wire to clean them BUT if that cleaning wire was a small thin wire, that would possibly simply be putting a hole in a sack of clogging debris. I use what is called "Mechanics Wire" which is 18 gauge. Fuel must flow freely through these H/S jets before gaining access to any other fuel passageway.

There is also the off center small brass tube that lead upward, vertically, in the center portion of the upper body. This is the main slow speed fuel passageway that has an extremely small ID to it.... obviously that cleaning requires a much smaller steel cleaning wire.

Hopefully this cures your problem. Let us know what you find.
 

JCurry2885

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Jul 20, 2017
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32
Yes tested the spark with my tester, and it looks good. I kinda feel like an idiot now that you mentioned the spark plug gap. For what ever reason I just took them out of the package and installed them without checking the gap. What do they usually come gapped at from factory? I did look at them and they all looked the same. I have the correct part # champion plug in it. Will check/torque the head bolts later today when I get home. Also what am I looking for on the plugs to know if they have water on them? I cant visually see water on them I don't think.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Plugs gaped at the factory?... No idea, and if one was dropped... could be no gap!

Water does not mix with fuel or oil so......................

Fresh water on plugs = normally a outstanding blob

Salt water on plugs = as above OR burnt on small specs on electrodes, resembling very small BBs.
 

JCurry2885

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Will set plug gap to .035 today. When I pulled the plugs out yesterday after running it for 10 minutes or so, two of them looked almost new with very very little discoloration. The other wasn't bad, but the middle prong looked kinda burnt, and bluish in color like it had gotten a lot hotter than the other two.
 

flyingscott

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If the middle plug looked blue I would guess you have a lean condition in that cylinder.
 

JCurry2885

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Checked the plug gap, they were all set at about .028, just re gapped them to .040
 

flyingscott

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The recomended gap for that motor is .030 so .028 is close enough. What you are missing is one plugs is running differently than the others.
 

JCurry2885

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Well I have been messing with it, and somehow it's idling now, but it's only running on 2 cylinders. The bottom cylinder isn't making power, it runs the same with that plug wire pulled off. With it connected, and my timing light on that wire it has a solid already flash the same as the other two cylinders. What's weird is if it pull that wire off and put a screw driver in it and out it close to ground I can't get a spark. I don't have my spark checker today because I loaned it out
 

JCurry2885

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Swapped the bottom coil out with a known good coil, and now it runs like a champ, revs quickly, smooth idle. How likely is it to have a bad CDI coil right out of the box? How do I check the coil?
 

JCurry2885

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Jul 20, 2017
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Took the boat to the lake yesterday. Starts and idles just fine, but once you give it throttle it just falls on its face. Dies most of the time, but if you fiddle with it enough it will go, but has almost no power, and is really slow. Seems like its running on 2 cylinders again. I pulled the plug wires off while in the water, and it seemed like the top 2 cylinders had a good blue spark, but the bottom cylinder was kinda orange. Maybe it was firing enough to run good on the hose, but not in the lake?? Am I needing another coil? New cdi power pack have low out put on that cylinder? Weird that with the new cdi coil it wouldn't even fire on that bottom cylinder while on the hose, but it ran fine when I put the old coil back on. Does the trigger just tell the power pack when to fire, or can it make the fire weak??
 

JCurry2885

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Jul 20, 2017
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Checked Timing, it was set at 14 degrees. Check spark on all 3 cylinders again, and have a nice healthy spark that will jump more than 7/16" on my spark tester. No inconsistent spark. Took it too the lake yesterday evening, and I did the same thing. Idles perfect, will go very low speed fine, but if you go full throttle it just bogs and dies. I can nurse it up to full thorottle and it will go, but barely has power. Maybe 5mph? Feel like it is only running on 2 cylinders. If I'm cruising along at full throttle and bump the choke it makes the engine want to die and it slows down. So that means it isn't starving for gas correct? It does act like its starving for gas tho. Carbs should be clean. I soaked them and completely rebuild them, removing the welch plugs and all. I'm out of ideas on this???
 

racerone

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Dec 28, 2013
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All 3 throttle plates going fully open ?----Timer base rotating to the stop.------Maximum timing advance set correctly ??----Check the reed valves.-----And possible lower crankshaft seal issues.------I do not like your compression numbers !---My gauge would show 140 on a good motor.----Fuel pump diaphragm inspected ?
 

JCurry2885

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Jul 20, 2017
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Took the boat out today with a buddy of mine who works on them. He said the timing wasn't advancing enough. He screwed the timing stop screw in like 10 turns and now the boat seems to run great! It got on plane and seems 100 times better. Don't understand how I set it yesterday at 14 degrees like it's supposed to be, but him making it have way more advance worked??? Scares me to run it much this way without knowing where it is...what would cause this?
 
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