1990 Johnson gt 150 fuel problems

Stu3006

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Jul 18, 2017
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15
My 1990 Johnson gt 150 starts and idles great, it is slow to plane off, lacks power. I can hold choke in and it takes off great. While running down lake, it is sluggish. At anytime, any speed if I hold in choke it picks up power. I have replaced fuel lines and filter, removed the antisiohon valve. Also had electrical problems but they are fixed with new Timer base. Could my VRO fuel pump be failing? How can I test it? Also how hard would it be to convert to electric fuel pump and would you all recommend that? Thanks
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Aug 17, 2016
Messages
1,001
Oh wow... That's a can of worms.. LOL...

Ok.. I don't really have any answers, but it does sound like it's running lean..

​There are some that advocate ripping the VRO out and will never trust them.
There are also some that explain the VRO is just fine as long as it's properly maintained..
​Conversion is possible if you want to do that.. Many here will be able to guide you on that if that is what you choose..

​I know a member here, cfauvel has recently been doing extensive research on VRO units (teardowns, rebuilds, testing etc..) to better understand them, so he is one of several that could help with VRO testing if that is what you decide to do..

​Wish I could offer some actual advice, but instead, I'll just say....
Thoroughly explore both options. Remove it and pre-mix instead, or keep it and maintain it..

​I've been watching the discussions on VRO for a few months now, and learning all I can. I never know if I'm going to end up with and engine that has VRO, so I'm just absorbing as much as I can on it.
​I still haven't figured out if I'd remove it or not should I ever have an engine with it..

​@cfauvel: Any VRO tips you can offer?

​To all else, Pro's and con's of removing it and converting?

​I'll leave this to the experienced folks now..
​Hope it helps... Even if just a little...
 

Stu3006

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Jul 18, 2017
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I already did away with the oil side. It looks as though the rebuild kit is as much as an Electric fuel pump... Really need to test it to confirm.. hate to misdiagnose but this is the only thing left.... thanks for your reply
 

fhhuber

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Jun 19, 2014
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1,365
Simple test.

Pull the engine cover.
Put the engine in normal planing alignment.
Pump up the primer bulb till its hard and SQUEEZE while looking at the VRO pump and the fuel lines.

1) it should not keep squeezing down because the carb floats should stop fuel flow. You are just holding the bulb TIGHT to keep pressure in the lines.
2) You are looking for fuel leaks. If fuel can leak out, air can leak in.

Might be leaks at hose clamps... Might be at seams of the pump. Might be anywhere along the fuel lines.
If its the hoses, replace the hoses. Cheap, easy. (leaking at the clamps is a bad hose)
If its the VRO pump then you have the choice of rebuild (not all can be rebuilt) replace or convert.

This may or may not find the problem... but its as cheap and easy of a test as you can try.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
36,287
Testing needs to be done.----# 1 is a compression test.-VRO is driven by air pressure.----Holding the choke in sprays fuel directly into the engine.---That indicates that fuel pump seems to be working OK !----That fuel bypasses the carburetors and to me would indicate carburetor issues.----I advocate testing and more testing , not random parts replacement.
 

ob

Admiral
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Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
If your engine picks up when you push the key fuel primer it almost certainly indicates fuel restricted carburetors. Under the same scenario if you were to pump up the fuel primer bulb and it had no effect on the engine running poorly, it would indicate that the fuel pump is not your issue.
 

cfauvel

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
645
This is your opportunity to get some tools....wives LOVE that.

You'll want a pressure tester with gauge...I haven't bought one yet, but one that measures vacuum InHg and PSI on the same gauge and has a hand pump that switches from pressure to vacuum would be perfect.

racerone et al will have to correct me if I'm wrong....but if you hook up a pressure gauge AFTER the vro's outlet you should expect 3 psi at idle. Here is where I might be off , if you hook up a vacuum gauge at the vro's inlet you should measure 3 inhg at idle...I believe all of the V6 have a TEE for the vacuum switch (fuel obstruction switch) so that is a great place to put the gauge.

I believe the warning switch for vacuum sounds the alarm at 5inhg....so I would expect the PSI at the vro's fuel outlet to be in 3-4 psi through all rpm range.

DO NOT install an electric pump.

VRO's fuel side diaphragms can be had for about $60 ditto for the air motor side. That is cheaper than a replacement VRO/OMS ($378-$400) or aftermarket fuel-only substitute pump for about $180 (there are two variants that I've seen .....one that has two pumps that work in series (cheaper) then another that seems to be a single big momma pump at $180)

series of tests
  • pressure test vro's fuel outlet - should be 3 PSI
  • test the fuel obstruction vacuum switch to make sure that works....turn key to ON, unhook switch from TEE, attach vacuum pump and pump up to 5 in hg...horn should sound
  • do FhHuber's tests, looking for leaks before the vro, at the vro and AFTER the vro (take air silencer off and look at each little TEE, each nipple and the distribution manifold (plastic cigar looking thing with several nipples coming off of it to each carb) ) NOTE: use snap clamps #10 or #12 for the fuel and pulse lines...NO WORM clamps.
looking for fuel obstruction
  • the primer bulb should NOT have collapsed whilst running....doesn't sound like it did.
  • undo the fuel pick up line at the tank and at spin on filter (I assume you have one) ....stick one end into a large glass bowl or jar and blow air into the other end....you should see some fuel and hopefully no gunk in the bowl.
  • attach a short fuel line to the pickup barb on the tank, add a fuel filter, another piece of hose, a primer bulb and another piece of hose....and the end of the hose into an empty glass bowl or jar....squeeze bulb until yet get fuel coming out into the jar...do that for a bit and inspect the fuel....should just be gas and no gunk/junk in the filter.
Assuming those tests came back positive, then I'd look at carbs next. Probably just needs a rebuild/super duper cleaning.



Pros/Cons to disconnecting oil side from OMS
PRO - peace of mind knowing that you don't have to do due diligence on the oil reservoir, oil pickup, low-oil circuit, no-oil circuit et al
CON - you'll have to pre-mix every time you fill up with gas, loss of convenience.

Pros/Cons to converting OMS to regular fuel-only pump?
PRO -cheaper
CON - you have to premix
CON- the oms pump was designed from the get go to deliver the right amount of fuel at all rpm ranges

Pros/Cons to converting OMS (with oil side disconnected) to regular fuel-only pump?
CON - may be cheaper to buy rebuild kit for which ever side is deemed faulty on the OMS, rather than buy new after market pump
CON- the OMS pump was designed from the get go to deliver the right amount of fuel at all rpm ranges
PRO - removing the housings from the OMS multiple times may ruin the threads in the housings(it is plastic after all) , thus creating leaks....working on a fix for that scenario (I HAVE that scenario and fixed it) Ultimately forcing you to buy the after market pump if you don't want to try to fix the OMS.
 
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Stu3006

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Wow, thanks for all the info, here is what I have checked and had a marina do

Cleaned carbs three times
New bulb and fuel line with bulb
Removed ball and spring from anti siphon valve
New fuel filter
Checked compression- good
No alarm going off now... it did when the bulb line was crimped

It is a 150 and acts like a 85hp... runs great and idles great just acts like not getting enough fuel.... so press the choke primer and as my 13 year old son says "hit the nitro daddy". Then I get the power I should have... .

..bulb pumps up firmly and stays
 

cfauvel

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 16, 2005
Messages
645
No alarm going off now... it did when the bulb line was crimped

Wait so you DID have the fuel obstruction horn go off previously?

after all the above was done have you go out to see if you still have problems?

so press the choke primer and as my 13 year old son says "hit the nitro daddy". Then I get the power I should have... .

Do you keep the key pressed in to go fast or just for a few seconds to give it a boost?
 
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Stu3006

Cadet
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Jul 18, 2017
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If you keep key pressed in the more power and faster it will plane and faster it will run..
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 28, 2013
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When you push the key in the primer valve opens.---Fuel is put directly into the motor by the fuel pump pressure output.----This fuel bypasses the carburetors !----That strongly suggests that you have carburetor issues.
 

cfauvel

Chief Petty Officer
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645
^^^^^ agreed ^^^^^^^

now the questions

1 - did this EVER run right?
2 - are these plastic carbs?
3 - if so what are the numbers on the idle/intermediate air bleeds and hi-speed jets?
4 - what does the parts blow out say they should be for your motor?
 

cfauvel

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 16, 2005
Messages
645
I have had several 200hp motors do this and all where VRO problem...


yeah could very well be the fuel side diaphragm and brown flapper....the brown flapper has to seal against the plastic slots to get the full pressure up to the fuel outlet. Would love to see the shape of internals of the OP's VRO.

the only thing i can say in the VRO defense is that the volume sucked into their pump seems to be larger than the after market fuel/only pumps....

I don't think we can post links to sites that sell items for boat motors here....so I'll post pics of the after market pumps I've seen.

these are WAY too expensive for what they are....it would be cheaper to get a fuel side kit for the VRO...or do both sides for ~$130

if the pump on the OP's engine is original we're talking 27 years old.

vro_2_fuel_only_pump_v1.png

vro_2_fuel_only_pump_v2.png
 

Stu3006

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Jul 18, 2017
Messages
15
Thank you all for the post... this is helping narrow it down..

Yes, ran Great all last season and just started doing this like flipping a light switch,
Aluminum carbs.

Thinking of taking Vro apart, and just looking at it to see what I can... I am just learning about all this so still not a confident boat mechanic...
 

Stu3006

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Jul 18, 2017
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^^^^^ agreed ^^^^^^^

now the questions

1 - did this EVER run right?
2 - are these plastic carbs?
3 - if so what are the numbers on the idle/intermediate air bleeds and hi-speed jets?
4 - what does the parts blow out say they should be for your motor?

Never heard of plastic carb... was that a joke.. lol
 

Stu3006

Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
15
Simple test.

Pull the engine cover.
Put the engine in normal planing alignment.
Pump up the primer bulb till its hard and SQUEEZE while looking at the VRO pump and the fuel lines.

1) it should not keep squeezing down because the carb floats should stop fuel flow. You are just holding the bulb TIGHT to keep pressure in the lines.
2) You are looking for fuel leaks. If fuel can leak out, air can leak in.

Might be leaks at hose clamps... Might be at seams of the pump. Might be anywhere along the fuel lines.
If its the hoses, replace the hoses. Cheap, easy. (leaking at the clamps is a bad hose)
If its the VRO pump then you have the choice of rebuild (not all can be rebuilt) replace or convert.

This may or may not find the problem... but its as cheap and easy of a test as you can try.

Thanks for the info, tried that and bun stayed hard and no leaks...
 
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