Need help rewiring 1956 Johnson Javelin

[KathyD19]

Hello again my forum friends. It's hard to believe but it's been 5 years since I sought out help from you all to restore my old boat and motor. I could not have done it without this forum and I'm forever grateful. I had zero motor/boat knowledge before this experience so I credit you. Now I really need your advice again. My old boat has been running like a champ and was fine when I put her up for the winter (in a heated garage, prepped as recommended). When I went to start it in May, I got nothing, not a peep. I bought a new battery just in case but that wasn't it. The wiring was old and had rotted casings, bent wires, etc so I knew I'd put that off too long and would need to rewire it. I have one fear (other than spiders and that's just natural) and that's electricity. Was shocked too many times growing up. So I asked a friend of mine who is an electrical engineer for advice. He looked it over and said I probably needed a new starter solenoid and to replace each battery cable and other wire one at a time as they were with new. I wanted to move the kill switch and push button start from the motor area to the helm area for easier starting and he said that was no problem to run longer 14 gauge wires. Here's the situation: the motor had been converted at some point by previous owner (PO) to 12 volt. Looking under the shroud at the motor we saw that the mercury switch and the choke solenoid had been disconnected assuming they must not have worked. Yet it was functioning fine for me until this Spring. The set up I had was a homemade by PO dashboard near the motor with three switches: a push/pull kill switch, a push button start switch and a toggle switch that was supposed to engage an in-tank fuel pump. When I bought it, the PO told me the in-tank fuel pump wasn't working so he'd disconnected the toggle switch and I changed to the traditional air/fuel duel line gas tank anyhow for safety. That left the kill and push-on button. The PO said I had to pull out the kill switch then press the button to start it BUT they said the push button didn't always work so if it didn't then I needed to push the button on the bottom of the starter solenoid. Worked fine that way for 5 years, until now. So I found a replacement universal starter solenoid that appears to be the exact same kind I had on it (OEM ones with the part number I have for my motor do not have the additional push button on the bottom of the solenoid so I stuck with replacing with what I had). I replaced the starter solenoid and wired it as it had been. I installed a brand new On push button momentary switch at the helm and a 2 pole push/pull kill switch at the helm next to it (and moved the original lights push/pull onto the panel to fill in the hole from the now removed toggle that wasn't used). I took each wire and cable off one at a time and replaced with new. My only pause was when I had to decide how to wire the push on in relation to the previous wiring because the old wiring involved the non-functional toggle switch. I consulted my electrical engineer friend again and followed his instructions. Now I go to start it up: battery cables are hooked up, new spark plugs installed, new fuel, I pull out the kill switch and push the push start button and absolutely nothing happens. I thought there is a 50/50 chance the kill switch is hooked up so that "in is on" rather than "pulled out is on" so I pushed it in and tried the push on button again: nothing. So I went to the the new starter solenoid by the motor and pushed the button underneath as I used to have to always do and the motor roared to life. Great! Except I had no way to stop the damn thing since the kill switch wasn't functional. Here's where it gets even more interesting: I went to throttle down to kill the motor and moving the throttle did nothing to the speed at all! I had the gear in neutral, the throttle at half way as I always do when starting yet pulling the throttle down did not change the motor speed at all. Now, mind you, I did NOTHING to the throttle when I was doing the rewiring and it worked just peachy last year. ???? So as a last resort I pulled off a battery cable and it died. (my only other thought would have been to unhook the fuel lines). I tried to work this problem logically and thought that I knew the old kill switch worked before so I hooked it up again and asked my husband to put the battery cable back on while I tried the old kill switch at the helm again. As soon as he made contact with the battery terminal, the motor started up (without me pushing ANY buttons at all) and the cable terminal and battery post sparked, slightly melting the terminal. I told him to stop, disconnect and leave the cable off. At that point I quit for the day. I am in over my head and I really need your help! Here's what I know: 1. Motor seems to think it's "on" all the time now, when I reconnect the battery. 2. Newly installed kill switch and ON push button at the helm do not seem to function even though the kill switch itself was connected exactly like the old one had been. 3. At least the new starter solenoid and boat motor DO work/the engine throttle is non-responsive to moving the throttle lever.
After thinking about it, I don't know why the engine would stop after removing the battery cable anyhow?? Doesn't the battery just energize the starter solenoid and starter to get it going but not KEEP it running?? Because I am always afraid of fire risk, I'm going to disconnect and remove the 5 gallon gas tank, I don't need to know that the motor can run, it does. I need to find out how to get the kill switch and push on buttons to engage the starter. I'm going to attach as many pictures as I can on here to help you guys advise me. I'm at a total loss. ​

 

[KathyD19]

I've got photos downloaded in Photobucket but can't seem to get them to link or load on here??

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[F_R]

No Title

Hoo boy, you lost me about 1/3 way through that story, when it became clear that what you have has been so re-engineered that it doesn't even resemble the original. All I can say is that all solenoids are not alike. A universal (Ford) solenoid is different inside than an OMC look-alike 12V solenoid, and is wired differently. For whatever is is worth, I am attaching a diagram for 12V conversion, using an OMC solenoid. Some people also add an in-line resistor in the choke wire if using the 6V choke.

I also am attaching the original 6V diagram for your reference.

Certainly, your electrical engineer friend can figure this all out.

 

[F_R]

BTW, that motor did not have a kill switch when it came from the factory. Not that one cannot be added.

 

[Chinewalker]

Originally, that motor used the choke to shut the motor off. Nowhere in your description did you include a choke button - not sure if it's there and got left out of your description or was not there at all because it was disconnected at the motor. In any case, your new circuitry should include one.

 

[KathyD19]

F_R, I apologize for it being such a long post. I knew it was but I wanted to be sure to give every detail. I already have the diagram that you posted, thank you. Yes the universal solenoid is a Ford one, so do you suggest I go back to OEM original solenoid instead? I agree the motor seems to have been modified a lot. There has never been a choke with it since I've had it. I simply pulled out the kill switch and pressed the button under the solenoid to start it and then either pushed in kill switch to stop or throttled down. The choke solenoid is not connected in the motor, I assume because it didn't work and someone bypassed it.
I wish I could get my pictures to post.

 

[F_R]

You can use the Ford solenoid if you wire it accordingly. But you cannot use the safety switch with it. (It will instantly destroy the safety switch the first time you attempt to start it). To use the F solenoid, do not connect the wire to the safety switch, and be sure the mounting bracket is grounded.

 

[KathyD19]

When you said "safety switch" are you referring to what I call the "kill switch" or are you referring to the mercury safety switch? And if you mean the kill switch then how do I stop the motor without having one?

 

[F_R]

Safety switch = mercury safety switch. It prevents starting the motor at high throttle settings. As said, that motor did not originally have a kill switch. Just cut the throttle back so far toward "Slow" that it stalls. Or, a kill switch can be installed by running extra wires.

 

[KathyD19]

No Title

 

[KathyD19]

I'm sorry that I just now am figuring out how to resize pictures and post them. I just wanted to be able to show you what I had done to this point. I haven't been able to work on the wiring any more since your advice, we've had a serious family emergency.

 

[KathyD19]

No Title

F_R I want to ground the solenoid like you said to do. Do I connect a wire to the screw that attaches the mounting bracket to the seat back and then to a bolt on the solenoid? If so which bolt, left, right or middle? Thank you.

 

[oldboat1]

need a common ground connection (powerhead or battery neg. post). Try jumping pos and neg directly from battery to starter to test starter operation. Consider rebuilding or replacement if direct jumping does not operate the starter (rebuilding probably a better first choice). ARCO has a good reputation if looking for a commercial rebuilder -- good customer service as well.

 

[oldboat1]

You can use the Ford solenoid if you wire it accordingly. But you cannot use the safety switch with it. (It will instantly destroy the safety switch the first time you attempt to start it). To use the F solenoid, do not connect the wire to the safety switch, and be sure the mounting bracket is grounded.

....i.e., grounding bracket to the motor and battery (common ground)

 

[KathyD19]

Thank you. I had my electrical engineer friend over yesterday to help me. Several issues going on but the one that needs to be addressed first is that the starter is stuck engaged in the flywheel. I posted a different post asking if anyone knows the part # for a new starter (hope that wasn't a mistake to do that, a separate post? If so, I apologize). I currently have PB Blaster soaking on it to see if that will free it up, but even so, I think it might need replaced with something newer and more reliable. The second problem was that the starter solenoid was staying on (closed) continuously. It's a brand new universal (Ford) one. It worked the first time by pushing the button on the bottom to start the motor but since then, every time the battery is connected the motor roars to life without having to press anything. My friend was very puzzled at that, had grounded the solenoid as you all suggested. He finally took every wire off the solenoid but the cables on the left and right side post and it was still "live". Then he noticed the starter was staying engaged. He suggested I begin troubleshooting with a new starter and see if the solenoid works ok with that. If it does, then all is good. If not, perhaps I got a bad solenoid OR the starter staying engaged did something to the new solenoid causing the contacts to stick closed.
Regarding my kill switch not working, he checked my new connections and said I should have soldered them rather than use connectors, also he said I need to strip the wires down further to fresh shiny copper and then solder. My fault for not getting a good connection and I will remedy that.

Lastly the issue with the throttle: he noticed that when I moved the handle at the remote, although the sliding rod was moving back and forth, the part closer to the carb was NOT moving. He checked to see if the tension screw was tight and after he loosened it then re-tightened it he said it still felt funny. It had broken apart. I have the old piece and I'll head to NAPA auto parts to get a new tension screw tomorrow.

So thankfully I have some answers as to what I need to fix, now just to find the parts and troubleshoot each one.