1964 Evinrude 40 hp wiring issues

[MidCenturyTed]

I acquired a clean appearing 64' Evinrude 40 hp electric shift motor to run on my 1960 Aluminum runabout, and having issues getting it wired properly. It came with a new marine ignition switch, and new choke switch. I did research as to how to connect all the wiring up, double checked everything and tried it out. No go, it wont turn over, and the choke isn't working properly. the choke is staying energized all the time and getting hot, and flipping the choke switch seems to de-energize it instead of energizing it. I have power at one large terminal on the starter solenoid, but none coming out the other side. Both smaller posts are hot when i turn the key switch. should they both be hot? I have checked my grounds and the motor, starter and control box are all grounded. I am mystified as to what the problem is. Wiring isn't my strong suit, but i feel like i have enough basic knowledge to do this but i'm scratching my head. Any ideas as to what i have connected improperly? It does appear that the connections have changed over the years for the ignition switch as the part number has changed for it. Could this be my issue? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks- Ted

 

[jimmbo]

The choke is working properly. In 1964 the choke switch does indeed open the choke. The 40 had a fully automatic hot air choke. OMC engineers felt the choke bimetal would cool down too fast and would unnecessarily choke to an otherwise warm engine, so the choke switch and solenoid were added to open the choke(1963 and earlier motors had hot water Auto chokes and no choke switch at all).

It does sound like you have some wiring issues regarding the electric. Perhaps the safety switches are open preventing power to the Solenoid? Have you tried bypassing the Solenoid? What are the voltage drops across connections? Connections clean and secure? The engine does not need the battery to run. Can it be rope started?

http://maxrules.com/graphics/omc/wiring/61_66_40HP.jpg

 

[F_R]

First, make sure you have the correct starter solenoid. A car solenoid is different inside and will make you go crazy. OK, if you have the correct solenoid, only one of the small terminals should be hot when you turn the key to start. Both being hot says the safety switch is either open (throttle advanced too far), or is wired wrong, or is out of adjustment, or burned up. (They will be burned up instantly by incorrect jump starting attempts). Ground the wire going to the safety switch and see if it cranks then. If it does, deal with whatever is wrong with the safety switch.

 

[F_R]

Yes, the 1964 had choke "override" switches. That was quickly changed to a choke switch that only choked in the conventional manner. So both systems are found in use.

 

[MidCenturyTed]

The choke is working properly. In 1964 the choke switch does indeed open the choke. The 40 had a fully automatic hot air choke. OMC engineers felt the choke bimetal would cool down too fast and would unnecessarily choke to an otherwise warm engine, so the choke switch and solenoid were added to open the choke(1963 and earlier motors had hot water Auto chokes and no choke switch at all).

It does sound like you have some wiring issues regarding the electric. Perhaps the safety switches are open preventing power to the Solenoid? Have you tried bypassing the Solenoid? What are the voltage drops across connections? Connections clean and secure? The engine does not need the battery to run. Can it be rope started?

http://maxrules.com/graphics/omc/wiring/61_66_40HP.jpg

So if i understand correctly the choke switch interupts the circuit, not energizes it? Is it normal for the choke to get hot/very warm to the touch then? I did wonder if the safety switch on the shifter wasnt working correctly, or was improperly adjusted. I did have to install the throttle cable into the shifter when i installed the controls. I havent tried bypassing the solenoid, but considered doing that just to test the starter. Havent checked the voltage drops, but i did double check all the connections and all are tight and clean. I havent tried starting it yet as i havent put the prop on it. It supposedly ran last fall and has new coils, carb kit, plugs impeller, ect. I was attempting to get the electrical sorted out before running it. Thanks for the reply, i will check the things you suggested. -Ted

 

[MidCenturyTed]

First, make sure you have the correct starter solenoid. A car solenoid is different inside and will make you go crazy. OK, if you have the correct solenoid, only one of the small terminals should be hot when you turn the key to start. Both being hot says the safety switch is either open (throttle advanced too far), or is wired wrong, or is out of adjustment, or burned up. (They will be burned up instantly by incorrect jump starting attempts). Ground the wire going to the safety switch and see if it cranks then. If it does, deal with whatever is wrong with the safety switch.

I do know that the car solenoid is different. I am using the one that came installed in the control box when i got it and since it supposedly ran last fall and seemed to come from a reliable source i gave it the benefit of the doubt. Is there any way of id'ing it as being correct by sight? I will try grounding the safety switch and see if it will bump over, not sure why i didn't think of trying that.

 

[MidCenturyTed]

Yes, the 1964 had choke "override" switches. That was quickly changed to a choke switch that only choked in the conventional manner. So both systems are found in use.

So there were two different choke systems in 64? Thanks for the responses btw. -Ted

 

[F_R]

No Title

Perhaps a bit of information is in order. The 1964 motor had a hot-air heated automatic choke with electric solenoid assist. The electric solenoid was activated every time the key was turned and held to the start position. Once the motor starts, the hot air choke takes over for partial choking during warm-up. So, every time you started the motor, the electric choke operated, hot or cold.

Problems occured when a warm motor was restarted and did not need choking. So, a Normally Closed "Choke Override" switch was provided that prevented electric choking if the driver operated the toggle. That caused great confusion.

To get around all that, in later years the "Override" switch was replaced with a Normally Open "Choke" switch that operated in the usual manner. The hot-air choke was not affected by the change. Together with that, there was a minor re-wiring of the switch. Very many 1964's got converted. I know I've personally done it to a lot of them that came into the shop.

This is not your wiring diagram, but the choke wiring is the same, showing both systems. Ignore everything else.

 

[F_R]

You asked how to tell which starting solenoid you have. Use a multimeter on lowest Ohms scale to check the resistance between the two small posts. Correct solenoid will show somewhere around an Ohm. A Ford solenoid will show no continuity (very high Oms--infinity)

 

[MidCenturyTed]

You asked how to tell which starting solenoid you have. Use a multimeter on lowest Ohms scale to check the resistance between the two small posts. Correct solenoid will show somewhere around an Ohm. A Ford solenoid will show no continuity (very high Oms--infinity)

So last night i got the motor to bump over finally with the key. Turns out it was the safety switch, i just had to ever so slightly adjust the idle lower and it was just enough. It felt pretty good to have my wiring vindicated. Im still going to do this check on the solenoid just for piece of mind.

 

[MidCenturyTed]

Perhaps a bit of information is in order. The 1964 motor had a hot-air heated automatic choke with electric solenoid assist. The electric solenoid was activated every time the key was turned and held to the start position. Once the motor starts, the hot air choke takes over for partial choking during warm-up. So, every time you started the motor, the electric choke operated, hot or cold.

Problems occured when a warm motor was restarted and did not need choking. So, a Normally Closed "Choke Override" switch was provided that prevented electric choking if the driver operated the toggle. That caused great confusion.

To get around all that, in later years the "Override" switch was replaced with a Normally Open "Choke" switch that operated in the usual manner. The hot-air choke was not affected by the change. Together with that, there was a minor re-wiring of the switch. Very many 1964's got converted. I know I've personally done it to a lot of them that came into the shop.

This is not your wiring diagram, but the choke wiring is the same, showing both systems. Ignore everything else.

The solenoid is staying engaged not just when the key is turned to start the engine, but when the key is simply turned on. My concern was after the key was on for a minute ( while i used a test light to do some checks for the starting circuit) the solenoid became quite warm to the touch. I used some wiring diagrams i found online and although i dont have them in front of me, they were listed for 2 or 3 years of the 40hp(63-65 maybe) Also if memory serves me correctly the choke wire was run outside of the sheathing of the main harness. It was red and white i think. I wondered why it was separate. but it had a factory looking connector so i didnt question it too long. Maybe it was converted at some point and not knowing i wired it incorrectly.

 

[F_R]

No Title

So, look at this diagram. It shows the choke as modified. It has a "Choke" switch, not a "Choke Override" switch. Now, if it had an override switch,and wired as shown here, the choke would be on whenever the key is on. Obviously, that is wrong. You have to have the switch type matching the correct wire scheme.