1986 Evinrude 120hp Won't Start Without Starting Fluid

interalian

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You're making this way too hard.

Pump up the primer ball until firm. Make sure the red lever is inline with the primer body. Remove a primer line from one of the carbs and crank the motor with the key pressed in. If you see fuel squirting out the hose, the primer is working. If you don't see fuel, the line could be blocked.

With the primer lever at the ''manual'' position, you should be able to push fuel through to the primer nozzles at the carbs by squeezing the primer ball.
 

Fed

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From Post #1
I closed the choke by hand and it seemed to idle ok

That makes me think you closed the carby butterflies, what did you close?

These motors are very hard to start if the throttle butterflies are open at all.
 

cfauvel

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From Post #1


That makes me think you closed the carby butterflies, what did you close?

These motors are very hard to start if the throttle butterflies are open at all.
oh missed that...yeah absolutely does need to have the butterflies completely closed...

OP check that your throttle stop is not cracking the butterflies open.....they need to be COMPLETELY closed.
 

mav6759

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Ok that made me think as well. when i look at the butterfly's, they are not fully close when I try the start the motor....but what does that have to do with the fuel not getting either into the carb's or combustion chamber..unless, with the butterfly's closed, they suck more fuel/air into the combustion chamber, which draws the fuel into the combustion chamber...am I on the right track..I see the butterfly's not quit half way open but close..
 

Fed

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I see a link & sync in your future.
About 30 small steps spread over 4 pages that must be done in sequence.
Do you have a genuine OMC Manual specifically for your motor?
 

cfauvel

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Ok that made me think as well. when i look at the butterfly's, they are not fully close when I try the start the motor....but what does that have to do with the fuel not getting either into the carb's or combustion chamber..unless, with the butterfly's closed, they suck more fuel/air into the combustion chamber, which draws the fuel into the combustion chamber...am I on the right track..I see the butterfly's not quit half way open but close..



half way open? am I reading that right?

with the butterflies open, too much air is coming in and throwing the air /fuel ratio out of wack..so while you MAY be getting fuel where it needs to be it won't ignite if it has too much air.

if you have the service manual...look for the link and synch procedure....those butterflies have to be completely closed for the Idle Air bleeds to meter the fuel properly...above and beyond the primer solenoid working right.


check that the stop on the linkage is not cracking the butterflies open...some people screw in the stop to raise the idle speed....that is not the way to do it on this motor.
 

mav6759

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Ok let me make sure I completely understand...I tried to close the butterflies by hand but they would not close..I disconnected the cable and i can't get them to close all the way...so i turned the keyand pushed in the key...I can hear the click, but they will not close...am I doing something wrong....
 

cfauvel

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Look at this diagram, there will be a screw that is cracking the butterflies open (my guess).


the primer solenoid is NOT going to close the butterflies like you would expect on a muscle car with automatic choke on a carb.

IF when you unscrew the idle stop screw (for a lack of better term) as far as you can AND the butterflies are STILL not fully seated then you are going to have to refer to the service manual for the Link and Synch procedure. What you will be doing then is basically undoing a bunch of screws that tie all of the carbs together. The butteflies should surely be closed by then, then it is a matter of tightening those screws you undid so that they work in unison.
 

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racerone

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???------The click is the electric primer for starting.---That electric primer DOES NOT close any butterflies on the carburetors.-----Time to research / study how things work on your motor !
 

mav6759

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thanks guys for all your help the model number is E120TXCDC....I'm trying to study this book and understand how all this works I have had four different machanic come out and do nothing I refuse to pay all of them I asked him to look at my motor diagnose what's going on and fix it very simple none of them could diagnose what was going on or fix it so I'm going to have to do it myself now I'm a mechanic by trade so I know cars I just don't know about boat motors. no I'm going to get up under here and take a loose every screw I can see that may be associated with those carbs because this repair manual really is bad...I guess the first thing to do is to get the butterflies closed I'm going to do that right now and I'll let you know either I tow it up or I got them closed
 

mav6759

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okay here's what I found out so far what's the carbs closed and the butterflies completely closed it will not start if I manually move that little shift rod all the way up to the front she will start but she will not idle but she would idle so high it scares me that I might blow a piston so somewhere within that long arm that's there with the screw at the end something has to be adjusted so right now the cars are not opening to make it start any ideas
 

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cfauvel

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here are some things to look at...I'm going to take a pic of my motor for you too
 

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mav6759

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OK that's about right...my controls is not moving that cigar like thing or what you call the timing advancement far enough to open up the choke so that the motor will start... I have to manually move that forward. Now I have tried to adjust that at the motor with the cable and no matter which direction I tried to make an adjustment it won't move but a fraction of an inch no matter how I try to adjust it I opened up the controls everything looks normal my cables are not locked but it still will not move it forward so right now I believe my timing is off...but I got to get the controls to move the timing advancement cigar like thing forward to open the carbs...but at this point if I manually push the choke open or butterflies open the engine with race is very high I have to manually push it back down so I can try to get it to idle...
 

cfauvel

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OK that's about right...my controls is not moving that cigar like thing or what you call the timing advancement far enough to open up the choke so that the motor will start... I have to manually move that forward. Now I have tried to adjust that at the motor with the cable and no matter which direction I tried to make an adjustment it won't move but a fraction of an inch no matter how I try to adjust it I opened up the controls everything looks normal my cables are not locked but it still will not move it forward so right now I believe my timing is off...but I got to get the controls to move the timing advancement cigar like thing forward to open the carbs...but at this point if I manually push the choke open or butterflies open the engine with race is very high I have to manually push it back down so I can try to get it to idle...



disconnect the throttle cable all together .

back out the 'idle stop screw' all the way

loosen the carb linkage screws (on both sides) so that you can move the cigar thingy along with the thick linkage bar.

Slide the cigar thing all the way back until it stops....

have someone or use a tie wrap to hold the thick linkage bar right there.

screw down the 'idle stop screw' until it JUST touches the block.

loosen the cam follower screw so that the cam follower JUST touches the dedent....tighten that screw.

making sure that the butterflies are fully closed, tighten the linkage screws.

now with your hand on the thick bar linkage, pull forward...the carb plates should start to open....also if you let go real quick the springs on the carb linkage should push everything back towards the rear of the engine, closing the carb butterflies.

This is the Link/Synch procedure from memory.


It sounds to me that the butterflies were set closed BEFORE having the thick linkage in the proper spot.

I have no idea how to set initial advance when the advance has been messed with ( the set screw at the end of the cigar). My manual says turning the setscrew on the cigar clockwise retards the engine, turning the setscrew counterclock wise advances the engine....so maybe your motor is super retarded...LOL

gotta get those linkages in the right spot initially.
 

racerone

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MAV---What " choke " are you talking about on this motor.---Post a picture of this " choke "
 

CaptnKingfisher

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Ok that made me think as well. when i look at the butterfly's, they are not fully close when I try the start the motor....but what does that have to do with the fuel not getting either into the carb's or combustion chamber.

Combustion needs not only gas, but also air. The butterfly controls airflow into the carbs. Ideally, 14.7 fuel to air is the correct stoichiometric ratio for combustion, but when starting an engine from cold (and especially in cold weather!) a richer mix is preferred. If your butterflies are not closing all the way, a cold start may prove difficult. Though in reality I think your problem is not limited to your butterfly valves not closing all the way, otherwise it would run fine once started. I would test the electric primer and then if thats working I would start looking around for air leaks. I screwed up a carb rebuild one time early in my wrenching history and the aluminum welch plug that I replaced came off when i ran the motor for the first time after the rebuild, ruining the air-fuel ratio in my carb and resulting in me not being able to start (or run) the motor. Took me awhile to figure out what went wrong. If you dont find anything wrong with the fuel getting to your carbs, and you did the rebuild yourself, maybe you want to open the carb back up and verify that your welch plugs have stayed sealed tightly shut and that you have your float positioned correctly etc etc.

Let us all remember the original issue was that the motor was bogging down. Then the carbs were rebuilt, fuel lines and fuel pump replaced, now we have a no-start situation. I doubt you messed up replacing fuel lines and assuming you got the appropriate fuel pump, I would go back to the carbs.
 

cfauvel

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Captn,
the butterflies on this carb have to be closed...these are plastic carbs, with idle, intermediate air bleeds and hi-speed jets....they are not the metal carbs that have an idle mixture screw or plugs like you've described.

the idle speed is actually set by adjusting the timing...not by cracking the butterflies open as one would do on a metal carb.
 

CaptnKingfisher

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Thanks for setting me straight! I haven't seen a plastic carb before so I'll keep my yap shut lol
 
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