1978 Johnson 35, will not idle

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Hi, my first post here. I have a 1978 Johnson 35 that will not stay cranked. It will turn over and run for a few seconds. Choke must be on for it to crank but will crank and run for a few seconds. If I give it gas by hand at the motor I can keep it running for as long as I like. Has new lines, new spark plugs, carb and fuel pump have been cleaned and rebuilt. I am new to outboards but pretty mechanically inclined. If anyone has any suggestions that would be great, will appreciate any input very much.
 

oldboat1

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So, won't idle at all, or keeps running only at high idle? Does "giving gas by hand" mean throttling up or pumping the primer bulb?
 
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It will start and run for a few seconds before it dies, and I believe it is the throttle I am using to give it gas. It is a lever right above the carb. I have tried pumping the bulb while it is running also, with no luck. The only way to keep it running is moving the lever thing above the carb which I believe is giving it more gas. Also taking the choke off kills it right away. Thank you very much for your hep
 
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I have cleaned it and rebuilt it. Primer build would not stay full until I rebuilt the carb, now it does. I may have the idle screw not adjusted properly, I have tried it out about 1 and a half turns and out about 2 and a half turns but same problem occurs either way
 

oldboat1

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still agree with ondarvr's suggestion. The idle passages up at the top have to be clean (need to open it up to do that, if you haven't yet). Needle 1 1/2 turns open to start, like you mention, then adjust for best idle (I usually try a little leaner [clockwise] until it backfires or stalls, then open a quarter turn.) You also need to link the throttle and carb by adjusting the roller on top so it just touches the mark on the throttle cam when throttling up -- will open the carb at the right time. If the bulb goes hard after priming, indicates that the bowl is properly filling and float needle is closing correctly.
 
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I took the carb all the way down and cleaned it, it does look like I might be missing a linkage or something from the choke to the throttle, I will post a picture in the morning. There is nothing connecting the choke to the throttle, is there supposed to be? I really appreciate all the help
 

oldboat1

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well, there's a choke linkage but the choke operates independently of the throttle. May have a solenoid if elec start, but there's not an auto choke that I'm aware of. Good pics are helpful -- will get you lots of input.
 

racerone

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Was the wee brass jet that is screwed into the carburetor bowl cleaned, yes or no ?
 
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I am not sure what you mean about the wee jet, if you mean the long brass one that goes through the carb with little holes on it, it was cleaned and the holes let gas come through. If you mean the brass fitting that the pin for the float sits in, it was replaced with all new parts. Here are some pictures, the first one is what I am using to give the motor more gas, which I believe is the throttle. The second is where it looks like I am missing something, but could be for the selenoid. It is electric start and does start without that selenoid.
 

racerone

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There is a wee brass fuel metering jet screwed horizontally into the carburetor bowl.--It is about 5/8" long with a 1/4-NC thread.----You remove the drain plug on the bowl to find that important piece of the puzzle.----Have you done a check to make sure you have spark on both leads ?-----Done a compression test ?
 
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Picture were reversed when I uploaded them. That jet was cleaned but not replaced, I have not done a spark or compression test, is this something I can do my self. By spark do you mean pull the plug and see if it jumps the gap?
 

racerone

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Good spark on that motor jumps a gap of 3/8" or more.----That is the test that I do.-----Other opinions will vary.
 
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So it seems I do have a good spark and compression. I took the fuel filter off and cleaned it but did not rebuild it, could this cause the problem I am having. After I start the motor and either give it throttle to keep it going or just let it die the primer build is not full anymore. Does have a new fuel line but an old gas tank.
 

oldboat1

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Think you need to start at the beginning. You need a $10 adjustable spark tester and a compression tester. The compression tester needs to be the screw-in type -- might be able to rent or borrow one if you don't want to buy one. You need to measure spark (try for a half inch and work back until you find spark -- 3/8" or more is what you want). You want compression of 120 or 125, give or take -- needs to be close between cylinders. The carb needs to be fully disassembled, soaked and cleaned with all passages cleaned out. The fuel pump diaphragm needs to be complete (no holes or tears) and supple (no set). The motor must warm up but not overheat -- around 130F or so surface temp on the top of the head, no higher than 160F. An infrared gun is a useful tool. If the impeller is more than a couple of years old, it probably needs to be replaced.

Fuel needs to be fresh with no sediment or water. The tank vent needs to work in order for the fuel feed to work, and the tank pickup has to be clear. Fuel mix is 50:1 using a good two-cycle marine grade oil.

Test the motor using the throttle control after doing the link and sync procedure described at the top of the forum.

On you pic -- the plate on the front of the carb throat is the choke plate, and is open in the pic (and appears to be discolored). After soaking and cleaning a carb, the brass will be bright and shiny -- same with the idle mix needle. You are operating the carb throttle plate linkage with your finger. The linkage should begin to move when the roller contacts the mag plate under the flywheel as you throttle up (also referred to as the timing plate or throttle plate). You can see the pick up point in the rubbings on the brass pick up -- should be an indentation or other mark in the vicinity. You should be throttling up using the twist grip or remote control lever (observe movement of the mag plate and carb linkage while throttling up). Additionally, it appears in the pic that the compression plug (domed plug) on top of the carb might be missing, although might be just the angle of the shot. If it's missing however, you will not be able to get the motor to idle and run. The area under that plug is part of the idle passage. It's also possible that the tip of a needle is lodged in the opening under there, either from the current needle or from an earlier one. If so, you won't be able to get the motor to idle.

Throttle position in the pic appears to be slightly advanced, maybe fast idle setting.

(sorry -- long response.) You may well have covered some of this....
 
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Thank you for your response, I will try what you have suggested. The carb has been cleaned twice and fully rebuilt once. That being said that brass choke plate that you muscat remove to take the carb apart has not been cleaned. Actually took it off and left on the motor while I pulled the carb. Again thank you very much for your thorough response, I will work through what you have laid out and get back. Great site and great responses thank you to all who have helped
 
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