weird short in 72 2 hp evinrude

Canoe2

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Anyone ever seen spark get lost from a 2 hp mate when you tighten up the screw that tensions the armature plate? Spring tensioned screw going through the liner below the ignition parts?? If the screw is out, nice spark, put it in, nothing. Thought maybe a broken ground, but it doesn't make sense to me. Any thoughts? Thanks,Tim
 

gm280

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I think your real problem is not the actual screw. but elsewhere. And when you install the screw, it shorts out to ground and stops the spark. So look for where ever the ignition wires are going to ground but not supposed too. That is the problem. You tightening the screw just makes a good ground connection. and the ignition wires are then shorted out to ground. JMHO
 

Canoe2

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that was my thought but i figured i might as well ask the question and see if i was missing something obvious. Done that before.
 

F_R

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That motor is supposed to have a ground wire between the mag plate and a cylinder bolt. Is it there, and not broken internally?
 

valvebounce

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Have you checked the insulation washers?Could be the insulation washer has got squashed,when it's not tight and no pressure on it,it might insulate.
When you tighten up on it,it squashes out and grounds the connection.Had it many times on points on bikes and cars.
 

Chinewalker

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As Frank said, check the ground strap. That motor has a nylon bushing under the mag plate that insulates the plate from the motor ? helps minimize wear, but keeps the tension on it so the mag lever doesn't wander. The strap is needed to complete the circuit.
 

Canoe2

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I had thought of that and plan to simply replace that with a piece of wire to see if the original is broken, but seems odd since it works until tension is applied to the bushing via the screw. Lots of good thoughts, thanks. More time in the garage I suppose, and that's never a bad thing.Will report back with the result. Thanks much, Tim
 

Canoe2

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Well, replaced the ground wire with a new one but no dice, and no spark either. Also thought it might have something to do with the gasket above that screw on the mag plate that I had forgotten to put back in, but that didn't do the trick either. Plan to check that ground wire more thoroughly and lean up the contacts but I am a bit at a loss here. Any other ideas out there? Thanks, Tim
 

Canoe2

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Checked the ground wire, it isn't the problem. Will have to check the parts diagram again to see if there is something I am missing here, maybe an insulation washer that was mentioned earlier in the thread.
 

F_R

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OK, I'll accept what you are saying, just because I respect you. But the fact remains that the armature plate must be grounded to the engine. All that stuff about the screw and insulators makes no sense at all. If you could do such a thing, the system would work if you just clamped the plate to the engine with a pair of Vise Grips. Consider the science behind it. The coil produces an electrical voltage. That does nothing unless that voltage can flow in a circuit from the source to the load, and back to the source. The circuit is coil to spark plug wire, to spark plug, jumps across spark plug gap (the load), goes through the spark plug threads to ground (the engine block), through the engine block back to the armature plate, and finally from the plate to where it started--the coil. So, as you can see, the connection between engine block and armature plate is part of the big picture.

The screw and plastic liner are there only to mount the plate to the engine and provide friction to the spark advance/throttle. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the spark. Why it sparks with the screw loose makes no sense---unless that permits some wobble to the plate, which in turn affects the breaker point gap and coil-to-magnets gap.

If you are sure the ground strap is good, I suggest you pull the flywheel and look to see what really is the problem. (Points gap ?????)

Electricity isn't voo-doo, and it follows the rules, which by the way, were established with the creation of the Universe.
 

Vic.S

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Checked the ground wire, it isn't the problem. Will have to check the parts diagram again to see if there is something I am missing here, maybe an insulation washer that was mentioned earlier in the thread.
here is the parts diagram below

The screw you are talking about is # 31 ??

Have you checked the points gap after tightening this screw ?

convert
 

Canoe2

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Can't agree with you more FR, I know there has to be something I am missing here, and it isn't voodoo. I wasn't quite sure if the liner insulated by design, but as you noted, it doesn't. I think I will start at square one and recheck every connection. That screw(#31 in the diagram) has to be indicative of some other problem.
 

gm280

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Canoe2, it is possible that when you screw in that screw it is hitting another screw that is holding any of the ignition parts on? Not being there and seeing for myself, silly ideas are all I got.
 

Canoe2

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I had a similar thought about that screw but i don't see it contacting anything. but obviously i have something shorting the spark when it is in. I think my best move now is to start pretty much from square one. I am going to remove and rebuild the ignition, maybe tonight, though the home life and an early flight might delay me until Friday. Hope not because i would really love to solve this one and get it put away for the winter.
 

gm280

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I had a similar thought about that screw but i don't see it contacting anything. but obviously i have something shorting the spark when it is in. I think my best move now is to start pretty much from square one. I am going to remove and rebuild the ignition, maybe tonight, though the home life and an early flight might delay me until Friday. Hope not because i would really love to solve this one and get it put away for the winter.

Canoe2, whatever you find, post it back on here for us all to read. I am certainly interested for sure.
 

valvebounce

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I think you will find the fault around the points plate and the condensor connections,If you have a spark until you tighten up,the system is working ok.
Tightening the screw is pushing past the insulation or pushing a bare wire to ground.
 

Canoe2

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Just read valvebounce's post after coming in from the shop and it was bang on. Connector from the coil to the points was in close proximity to the plate when I went back into the ignition. My guess is that when the tensioning screw was tightened it must have tensioned the plate enough to arc out. Realigned the connection and spark has been re-established. Now on to a good carb cleaning to get this thing running.
 
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