50's OMC...I think

[nds040583]

Hey everyone, after months of prowling the forums for answers about the POS 7.5 69' Ted Williams I own I finally decided to post something. I'm going to look at a mid 50's (best I can tell) 12hp Chris craft/sea King outboard. I love how it looks and am hoping that it's in as good of condition as it looks on CL. Hoping someone could give me any information they know about these engines and whether it's worth getting.
From what I understand; OMC made Evinrude/Johnson/Gale, and Gale was the "budget" brand that was sold to numerous other companies for rebadging. I believe what I'm going to look at is one of these (hence why I'm posting in Johnson/Evinrude) and am hoping parts are somewhat available and I'm not searching endlessly like I did with the Ted Williams. The gentleman selling it says it runs on one cylinder when it warms up and he doesn't want to put any effort into it. I'm thinking electrical but will hopefully confirm that if I purchase it...we'll see.
Anyway, here's some pics from the listing, and if anyone lives in the metro Detroit area and needs a Ted Williams part motor (or rebuild) let me know.
http://images.craigslist.org/00g0g_2d0p06kDdg9_1200x900.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/00Q0Q_cy81m2soYS7_1200x900.jpg

 

[flyingscott]

Definitely an omc product gale or buccanneer would be a guess. Parts are very available for it all the parts off of an johnson/evinrude will fit. Coils,points and condensers and waterpumps are factory available.

 

[interalian]

12HP? Maybe based on a 15 and de-tuned for business reasons? Looks cool with the fin ports on the rear of the cowl.

 

[flyingscott]

12HP? Maybe based on a 15 and de-tuned for business reasons? Looks cool with the fin ports on the rear of the cowl.

That is exactly what it is

 

[nds040583]

So I went and looked at it and ended up getting it for $100. The old man I got it from said it runs on two cylinders until warm, then intermititently on one with the bottom cylinder being the culprit. He even started it up for me and it sounded pretty good. It is a mid 50's (still have to verify the exact year) sea King from Montgomery Ward that an a friend of his repainted and put the Chris craft decals on. The coils were replaced, so I'm thinking if I replace the points and wires I might be in business. I'll check back in when I get some time to go through it more thorough.

 

[nds040583]

Ordered the tune up kit and am going to NAPA either tonight or tomorrow to pick up some copper core spark plug wire. Model # is GG-9016A, which from what I could find on this site is a 12D11. Serial number is 45X532859, so does that mean this is a 59'? Don't know how to tell the year from the VIN on anything but a car and motorcycle. Also, it has a built in gas tank and a line going to an external; here's the issue though, someone siliconed off the built-in line. Skulking around I see that these used to come with a fuel switch (petcock?) to chose between built-in and external gas tanks, and that was located on the left side cover (if you're looking at the choke knob). There is no hole for that switch on mine so I'm assuming the external line was run after the fact, so I'm going to try and locate one of the original switches and drill the hole or buy a newer switch and do the same. I get more and more excited about this motor the more I read up on it and can't wait to get it on the boat. Quick question, if anyone knows the answer; you say this is a detuned 15 hp, so how would this be increased to 15? The 15 hp carb? I'll try and post some pics after I clean it up and (hopefully) get it going. Thanks for reading my incoherent ramblings

 

[hardwater fisherman]

It is listed here on Iboats as a 1955 model on the motor manufactures pages. Another site has it listed as a 1954 or 1955. I guess the lower serial numbers would be the 1954 models. EDIT ... It is also listed here as a 1954 or 1955 model.

 

[F_R]

45X-----tells the year. Reverse the 45 and you get 54--1954. It's well known that that's the way Montgomery Ward coded their motors. I happen to have the same motor under the Buccaneer brand.

 

[F_R]

It is related to the 15hp, but it is NOT a 15hp. It has smaller bore and silver plated connecting rods and bronze main bearings. A 15hp has roller bearings on the con rods and upper and center main bearings. Changing the carburetor won't make it a 15.

 

[nds040583]

F_R OH! Very cool. That's good stuff to know. I was reading elsewhere that the later Johnyrude 18's were the same as the 25's but with a different carb, so I wasn't sure if that applied to the earlier 10, 12, and 15's. Thanks for the response

 

[F_R]

What you read about the 18 and 25 was false also. They are related, but the 25 has a balanced crankshaft for higher RPM, different pistons and different cylinder head, along with some other tweaks. In other words a 25 is a souped-up 18.

 

[nds040583]

Well, I had a big write up about what I did and what happened and then my phone quit and deleted it all. Now that I'm highly agitated I'll just write the succinct version: blown head gasket pouring water into lower cylinder. If someone could recommend a good head gasket preferably with a fire ring for duarability, it'd be greatly appreciated. I wanted to upload pics of everything but apparently every one exceeds the 2mb limit for this sight.

 

[F_R]

That's a good point, the originals did not have a fire ring. But they did use that gasket material that OMC used everywhere. It had asbestos in it. Part number 552181.

Edit: Oops, I just did a no-no. But I deleted it.

 

[nds040583]

F_R so I got the new head gasket with the part number you gave me, I put it on starting at the top right bolt of the bottom cylinder and went in a spiraling fashion. I torqued each bolt to 18-20 ft lbs. started it up this morning and it's running like crap. I was messing with the low speed fuel screw to see if I could get it to idle but it was just very erratic. I noticed that water was seeping out of the head at the top, so I can assume that it's seeping into the cylinders. Is the torque I put it to correct? Was there some step I missed beside 'put head gasket on, torque bolts?' Appreciate the help

 

[HighTrim]

You start in the center, and spiral outwards in a circular fashion. Start with 1/2 torque for first pass, 3/4 for second, then the final torque on last pass. Don't start in upper right corner, start in center of head. 60 inch lbs on first pass, 90 inch lbs second pass, then the full 120 inch/lbs.

18 to 20 ft/lbs is WAY too much for a 12hp. That is double the torque/

 

[nds040583]

HighTrim crap. I did the torquing in the direction you described, just not the force; you think I need to get a new gasket? Obviously some know better than I, but I got that torque spec on this forum; since it seems that I'm getting conflicting information do you mind me asking your source? I appreciate the help, I just want to make sure I do it correctly.

 

[82rude]

Not much help on your headgasket problem but if you still have problems with losing a cyl later look to a coil failing under load.

 

[YellowJacket1956]

Gale was indeed an OMC brand for re-badging, but budget brand may not be best descriptor. My understanding is that some new features were introduced into the ale before being made availabler on Johnson and Evinrudes. Hope this works out for you!

 

[AlTn]

did you surface the head before reinstalling it?..or at least check it for flatness?

 

[HighTrim]

Well, I got it from my brain, but I dug up the Gale Torque Chart if you do not believe me. Trust me, you have crushed your head gasket. Buy a new one, max out your torque at 8 to 10 ft/lbs. If possible, use a inch/lb torque wrench, as it is more precise for that low a torque. Coat head bolts in OMC gasket sealing compound, and spiral outwards, from the center bolt, in 3 waves as described.