Variety of problems with a Johnson 140

petersbc

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I'll try to be concise but I'm having a variety of problems with this motor.

78 Johnson 140

Starts fine when cold but once warm it tends to fire once and kick the starter out but not catch and run. The problem is not cured by chocking the motor and I just have to keep trying it until it starts. Does not do this all the time and sometimes it will do it once then start and other times it takes 7 or 8 or more tries before it starts.

Motor idles around 2000 on the muffs and 1000 in the water. It's on a pontoon and sits deep in the water. It tends to act like it is loading up at idle in the water and will slowly die at times but not always. I use the fast idle lever to keep it running when this happens.

It will stumble on transition in gear sometimes. I can throttle up to 2000 and when I try to go past that it stalls. If I let it run at 2000 for a bit and play with the throttle it will cure itself and run fine. Runs fine at speed but I do not cruise at over 4500 unless the lake is really smooth but it will run fine all the way up to 5800. Last summer tapping of the choke would cure this and it only happened at 1/2 a tank of fuel or less so I thought fuel starvation. This year I put an electric fuel pump on it to "prime" the factory pump and but it still did it on both trips so far this year. Not always but occasionally and I did not try the choke tap trick this year.

It almost seems as though it's over fueling and causing a miss but the carbs have been cleaned, float level set, and they do seal, hard bulb when pumped up. It does not smoke excessively nor does it put raw fuel in the water.

Last year I had a bunch of ignition issues with a failed stator and two bad coils. I replaced all four coils and wires as a preventative measure and spark is good. Compression is consistent on all cylinders but I can't recall the exact reading as it was taken last year during my troubleshooting of the ignition issues. Above 100 is all I can recall but can do another test if that is warranted.

Plugs are new last year and are the "strapless type" that are correct for the motor according to this site and they look fine with normal coloration and no gap bridging or visible cracks.

Again motor runs fine above 3K actually other than the transition issue it runs fine at 2K. No issues, pulled the grand kids round on the tube for a couple hours during the day. Cruising across the lake is not an issue but slow speed and starting is my biggest trouble.
 

racerone

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Report the values of a compression test taken perhaps tomorrow.----Not what it was last year.
 

jakedaawg

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the off idle problems you describe could be indicative of a couple problems. It may be as simple as one of the bottom plug wires being routed to close to the engine latches.

It may be the engine is mounted way to low in the water.

It could need a carb cleaning, new floats set properly and carb adjusted and lynch and synch. A couple winters ago I actually typed out the link and synch for this very model one night while bored. You may be able to search for it.
 

jakedaawg

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105-110 is also low compared to the three of these that I work on regularly. You may consider pulling the heads to look for ring damage.
 

petersbc

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Low compression is disheartening maybe its the plug wires although im not quite sure how to tell. The have no evidense of leaking and arebrouted factory.

The carbs are clean and the floats seal. Float level cant be critical as trim would totally screw up.how the motor runs, but they are set right.

This is the second year with the same problems after going through the carbs again so it may very well be compression. Too low in the water seems unlikely as well as its a pontoon and the have to sit deep to put the cav plate at the bottom of the motor pod.

Ill look at the plug wires again and the see from there. I hope i dont have to rig the 70 again and rebulld this motor.
 

tblshur

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petersbc might try a decarb with seafoam not hard or expensive to do , look at the timing advance lever under the flywheel make sure it moves freely.also the connectors on firing pkgs some times they get pushed back in the connector housing. good luck:joyous:
 

racerone

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Easiest way to gather good evidence is to remove the 4 bypass covers ( 6 small screws each ) this allows inspection of pistons and rings.--May need 4 new gaskets for a few $ each.
 

petersbc

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petersbc might try a decarb with seafoam not hard or expensive to do , look at the timing advance lever under the flywheel make sure it moves freely.also the connectors on firing pkgs some times they get pushed back in the connector housing. good luck:joyous:


Had the timing mechanism issue and fixed that. I do need to check the carb balance and timing again to rule that out. I also want to check the plug wires for leaking. That is a little trickier but doable.
 

petersbc

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Its probably the way i copied it in. Its the exploded crancase view from i boats.
 

James R

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Your motor is probably tired but should run on the comps you stated. Sea Foam wont do anything for it but a Ring freeing product may. I think your problem is carbs or possibly fuel pump. I would go through the carbs again and be sure to clear the idle tubes and every thing else in there. By using a fuel mix spray into the carb throats when starting you can isolate the problem if it is a fuel issue.
 

petersbc

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I would have agreed with carbs but i went through the carbs last year with the same results. I had the bowls off this year and blew everything out i could access without removing plugs. I could do it again i guess.

I thought fuel pump as well so i unstalled an electric to feed the factory pump. Would a better test be to just bypass the factory pump?
 

petersbc

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One difinitive issue, three of four plug wires are leaking at the inside turn of the coil boot. Will replace them and see where to go from there.
 

petersbc

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been a while with no results. Motor starts better but is still acting up. The dead spot in acceleration is over come by a couple of taps of the choke so my thought was gunk in the carbs. Still having idle issues and full throttle is sometimes 5400 and sometimes 4800 with no real changes in boating conditions. waves, wind etc...

Went to pull the carbs today and found water in the intake plenum, I had the boat out on Sunday, There was enough water that when I loosened the bolts on the outer cover it drained out it was not just moist under the cover. Seems like I'm sucking up water from underneath? Can't see how else it would get in there but if I'm sucking water into the motor either through the carbs directly or the plenum "drain" tube that would cause me some issues. Any reason I could not just block off the drain and leave the gasket off the plenum cover? I'm not sure I can raise the motor without causing cavitation issues.

I found a pin hole in the fuel pump diaphragm and replaced that. Took the upper carb apart and found nothing inside, going to do the lower next.

The motor cover is a bizarre design in that the air has to be drawn from the bottom where my 70 had holes in the top cover to draw in air. Seems like this makes the motor susceptible to catching water but I may just have to set too deep.
 

petersbc

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been a while with no results. Motor starts better but is still acting up. The dead spot in acceleration is over come by a couple of taps of the choke so my thought was gunk in the carbs. Still having idle issues and full throttle is sometimes 5400 and sometimes 4800 with no real changes in boating conditions. waves, wind etc...

Went to pull the carbs today and found water in the intake plenum, I had the boat out on Sunday, There was enough water that when I loosened the bolts on the outer cover it drained out it was not just moist under the cover. Seems like I'm sucking up water from underneath? Can't see how else it would get in there but if I'm sucking water into the motor either through the carbs directly or the plenum "drain" tube that would cause me some issues. Any reason I could not just block off the drain and leave the gasket off the plenum cover? I'm not sure I can raise the motor without causing cavitation issues.

I found a pin hole in the fuel pump diaphragm and replaced that. Took the upper carb apart and found nothing inside, going to do the lower next.

The motor cover is a bizarre design in that the air has to be drawn from the bottom where my 70 had holes in the top cover to draw in air. Seems like this makes the motor susceptible to catching water but I may just have to set too deep.
 

jakedaawg

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Water in air silencer is.bad. these motors breath through a hole in the bottom of the cowl that has a plate over it. If your too low you have water get in there. Might be too much motor for youth toon. What diameter toons are you running. Take a pic of boat in water and post. How long is the boat.
 

petersbc

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boat is rated for a 115 but looking at the weight of a 115 this vintage (boat is a 79) the 140 is not any heavier. Boat is a 24 and when in the water with everyone on board it's pretty low but the cowl is still at least foot out of the water. My current thought is it's the water coming off the toons while underway is where it's coming from. I finished the other carb, it was clean, and resynced them. I need to check the timing tomorrow and then Saturday I'll be lifting the motor up. We'll see how it goes.
 

petersbc

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Not that there is any interest in this thread any longer but I hate leaving issues open ended. I started the motor, checked timing at idle,2?, and set the "on the muffs" idle speed. I'll have to see if it is correct in the water. I checked max timing by pulling all the plug wires, grounding them, and cranking the engine. It is at spec of 24?. Motor seems to start and run better but the proof will be in the pudding and we are going out today. I also raised the motor as high as it will go without modifying the transom/getting a jack plate. It's the fireworks at the local lake today and I have a VERY full boat so if I'm going to have water infiltration problems with the high motor position I would say today is the day. We'll be keeping an eye on it.
 
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