98 200hp Evinrude no spark even with new power pack/wiring harness/timer base/starter

[91et]

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Here's what happened and what I've done so far:

What happened: Was on the water going almost full throttle for about a mile...suddenly felt like I lost some power as the engine...boat and rpm slowed down to another level even though I did not increase/decrease the throttle. No bad vibration or 'bad' clanging sounds heard...just a drop in rpm. Continued for another 100 yards to the place I was going to anyway, and as I started to let off the gas the engine died and hasn't started since.

What I've checked and/or replaced:
Engine cranks ok, but just no spark. Got out the manual and installed in-line spark tester to watch for spark while I did these tests:
1. Performed the kill switch test (disconnected the kill switch wire) and cranked engine...still no spark
2. Performed the shift switch test (disconnected wire) and cranked engine...still no spark
3. At this point I just decided to take it to the local Evinrude dealer, but they said they were backed up for 4 WEEKS, meaning I had to put down a $85 deposit just to get on their 4 week waiting list
4. After talking to few other folks, they just kept repeating "power pack power pack"...so I bought a new power pack online and installed it...still no spark.
5. Went back to the manual and performed charge coil test...voltage output was ~150V on both wire harnesses coming from stator (manual says it should be greater than 130V). no wires are shorted . Resistance test results = 945 ohms, even though manual says that it should be 850+/-85 ohms. so far, I don't think being 10 ohms higher than the recommended range (945 vs 835 ohms) could cause the problem, but if anybody thinks this is the smoking gun, then it could mean a new stator.
6. Performed blocking diode check/test (diode built into wiring harness)..diode FAILED test...so replaced wiring harness with new harness with new diode in it..still no spark.
7. Performed timer base/sensor coil test: all ohmmeter tests were "pass" (no shorts, all ohm values ok), but voltage output was low. I'm supposed to see a spike greater than 200 mV during cranking per the manual, but the most I ever saw was 100 mV. So, I thought, "ok, the timer base is bad." So, I bought a new timer base and installed it...still no spark. The old timer base had part of its inner surface melted/eaten/shredded up into bits, so I surely thought that this would fix things. The stator looked normal when I looked at it when the flywheel was off (and I was changing timer bases). Also, the flywheel looked normal and no loose magnets.
8. Then I kept looking online and read that the engine needs 250 rpm or more to generate the voltage to create a spark..so I video recorded my flywheel turning/engine cranking and then went home and used my video editing software to play 2.0 seconds of the flywheel spinning in slow motion so I could count the revolutions. result = just under 4 revolutions per second, or only 220-240 rpm. So, I then thought that maybe the starter was the problem.
9. Voltage at starter terminals was 13.8 volts during cranking, which should be sufficient (meaning not a battery/cable/solenoid problem). I hooked a brand new battery directly to the starter terminals using jumper cables, but it still could not spin the engine fast enough (per video analysis). Bought and replaced the starter...still no spark and still no increase in engine cranking speed.
10. Tried to wiggle flywheel side to side thinking maybe upper/lower bearing was loose and flywheel was rubbing stator during cranking and causing added rotational friction, but flywheel tight/snug as a drum, so don't suspect any bad bearings.
11. Took off lower unit and looked at impeller to make sure it wasn't somehow in pieces or jammed and causing extra rotational friction...impeller ok/normal.
12 Disconnected wires from stator to rectifier and cranked engine...still no spark.

Repeated all electrical tests with the spark plug tester on one of the cylinders on the other bank, all test results the same (still no spark). Double checked all wire connections/grounds...still no spark. Can turn/rotate flywheel by hand with no problem. Engine cranks with no problem and sounds normal cranking (nothing banging around). Just "still no voltage greater than 200 mV coming out of timer base during cranking"....so still no spark.

Just wondering where I can look next while I still wait for the dealer to get around to me in the list (assuming I've given up by then). Basically the only part I haven't replaced is the stator, but again it's reading only 10 ohms higher than the spec and can generate the required amount of voltage (and it is a new stator anyway...replaced 4 yrs ago so newer than any other part on the engine).

Normally I would just wait for the dealer to get around to me, but the fish are biting NOW...so that explains all the effort to fix it myself. Ha.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and I'll try to answer any additional questions you guys may have.

 

[boobie]

Did you disconnect the kill switch wire, black/yellow right at the pack or the ignition switch ??

 

[91et]

I disconnected the black/yellow wire right at the power pack when doing that test. I also had tried replacing the ignition key switch entirely (but it needed it....since over the past 2 years the lanyard clip was having more and more trouble staying clipped onto the key switch).

 

[Fed]

CDI website says...

Check the center hub triggering magnet in the flywheel. A loose magnet can cause this problem.

It strikes me it must be something common to both sides.

 

[91et]

The flywheel magnets looked normal when I took it off during the timer base replacement last week. I even took the flywheel off again today to re-inspect the magnets...all were mounted securely and spaced normally with no signs of damage.

 

[Fed]

Sorry mate that's all I've got but thanks to you I did learn all about center magnets today right here at iboats.
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...ohnson-evinrude-outboards/113878-omc-flywheel

There's a CDI map picture in the last post for future reference.

Good luck & let us know the end result.

 

[Faztbullet]

Is the ground wire from the pack grounded to the stud???

 

[91et]

Yep, the ground wire from the pack is grounded to the pack mounting stud and the nut is screwed down tight. I double checked that this weekend too. Good suggestion to check, though.

 

[91et]

May 12 update: still no spark.
Replaced stator with working used one. Still no spark.

Again, motor is turning 230-240 rpm, which honestly is normal for this motor (sounds normal to me), and using jumper cables to connect a brand new battery to the brand new starter still doesn't result in more than 240 rpm or so. But remember, this 230-240 rpm is fast enough to make the stator work correctly (correct stator output voltages), so i'm guessing it should be fast enough for the brand new timer base to work correctly too, even though I only get 100 mV readings out of the timer base instead of 200 mV or more.

Took off brand new power pack and put original back on....no change (still no spark).

Question about the power pack: Does the power pack need a 12VDC input in order to "be waked up" and run correctly?....and is that the yellow+red stripe wire going into the pack? that wire seems to come from the starter solenoid area. The voltage on my yellow-red stripe wire just before the pack is 9.5 VDC during cranking (wondering if that is too low or ok....and why isn't that wire mentioned in any manual..). On the other hand, if the power pack requires no input voltage to operate correctly, then what's the purpose of that wire?

Just seeing if anybody has more info on that yellow+red stripe wire since it'll be another 2 weeks before the dealer can get to my boat and the "new starter+new stator+new power pack+new timer base+new engine wiring harness+new ignition switch+huge credit card bill" still hasn't solved "my no-spark on any cylinder" condition. Thanks.

 

[Fed]

You should be able to start this with a rope so I don't think the red/yellow has anything to do with the loss of spark.

Send sutor623 a PM and ask him to look at this thread, he's become quite an expert on these ign systems lately.

 

[91et]

Hi Fed,

Not a bad idea if this were a much smaller engine...the only way this V6 would start with a rope is if I were the Incredible Hulk and it had a place to attach one. I will contact sutor623...thanks for the referral.

 

[Fed]

Should have a notch on the flywheel for the rope.

 

[Faztbullet]

No rope start attachment on Johnrude V-6,,,and if it did I would not mess with the person that could rope start it!!! Pull the spark plugs to add some RPM and see it it sparks. I myself think you have a defective trigger..

 

[sutor623]

I would disconnect boat side electrical and spin the motor over with a remote starter and see if spark returns. This will separate boat side to motor side.

You are saying that timer base is producing the pulses to the powerpack. Also charge coil is sending juice. This issue lies in the powerpack. Not meaning the pack is bad, but a signal coming in is disturbing its operation. I would also try disconnecting the tan wire, yellow and black wire and see what ya got. Also, you need 12v coming into the yellow/red wire to the pack so check to make sure 12v is hitting the pack at that connection when cranking. If that yellow wire is shorted to ground between solenoid and pack you will not have fire at cranking speeds.

 

[Fed]

As I understand it the yellow/red is only there to engage quickstart, still should have spark with yellow/red disconnected?

I saw a bloke on you tube pull start a 200 etec a while back, he made it look easy.

 

[sutor623]

Clarke at CDI told me that the yellow red wire also added some voltage from the battery to the powerpack, just while the solenoid is engaged.

 

[sutor623]

Are you sure there isn't a tiny little Crack in the center hub triggering magnet? You said all the magnets are spaced properly, meaning the outer magnets that power the charge coil. I am wondering about the magnet in the middle. Also as fed suggested on the CDI troubleshooting guide it shows you magnet position. I have seen on two motors where they lost spark and the center magnet had a tiny hairline fracture. Seems like you have thrown every other ignition component at this besides the flywheel.valso, unlikely, but the magnets can lose their charge.

 

[Fed]

This still looks like the smoking gun to me...

7. Performed timer base/sensor coil test: all ohmmeter tests were "pass" (no shorts, all ohm values ok), but voltage output was low. I'm supposed to see a spike greater than 200 mV during cranking per the manual, but the most I ever saw was 100 mV. So, I thought, "ok, the timer base is bad." So, I bought a new timer base and installed it...still no spark. The old timer base had part of its inner surface melted/eaten/shredded up into bits, so I surely thought that this would fix things. The stator looked normal when I looked at it when the flywheel was off (and I was changing timer bases). Also, the flywheel looked normal and no loose magnets.

 

[91et]

Update: Ok, I should have looked at the center hub magnet better than I originally did. Upon taking the flywheel off again (to put back on my newer stator and take off the old 'test'/used stator that I was using to troubleshoot with), I took a much closer look at that center magnet and saw a chipped area of that magnet. When I pushed/pried that small chipped area with a small screwdriver, other chips around the ring started becoming loose and popping up/off. The 6 stator magnets look good, but that center hub magnet was definitely cracked. So hopefully that's the culprit, and it does help explain why even the brand new timer base was not generating enough voltage to tell the power pack to tell the spark plugs to "fire." The new flywheel should be here early this week. Got my fingers crossed.

 

[sutor623]

Yup I think you nailed it. In the CDI manual it even talks about checking the flywheel or it isms very costly/timely endeavor. Let us know how if goes, but I'm sure this issue is history.

And lotsa guys miss the center hub because many motors get their charge AND timing pulses from the outer magnets.