Latest issue 87 'Rude...motor wont start at all now

sutor623

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
4,087
Crazy thing is, she ran the best she ever has before this failure.

Ouch, we have heard this many times. When a motor runs lean she runs GREAT, then kaboom!! Not saying (and hoping) that is what you have going on, but you definitely need to run some checks.

If you are going to do work on your own motor, you NEED a compression tester, and spark gap tester, at minimum. Without these tools, you have very little to go on.
 

oldboat1

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
9,598
If you get nothing (dead, no starter -- no cranking), that could be the neutral safety switch in the box. If that dead mans switch alone failed, the engine would crank (starter engaged), but no ignition -- no spark. Separate systems. Starter function (i.e., starter operating) doesn't rule out ignition problems.

Either switch can be replaced -- or maybe just a little electrical spray to clean.
 

urbanredneck

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
111
Ill try to reply to everyone.

Flying Scott, yeah she cranks like normal, just doesn't turn over. And I haven't made it out to Where my boat is stored just yet.

Sut. I do have access to both tools. I don't own them, but am able to borrow them from work.

Oldboat. I am get cranking. Everything seems to be fully functional other then the motor turning over.

And as far as the starter still being able to operate with an ignition problem, well, i dont fully grasp the concept of how the ignition system works, so ill admit im lost on how to troubleshoot that.

Best thing I can do before we go any further is to go out and run the basic tests. That will probably be tomorrow at the latest. I will report back with my findings.
 

urbanredneck

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
111
Jumping the solenoid and removing the boat side electrical for test purposes is easy. What you do is remove the 20A fuse then disconnect the red plug. After that you go to the starter solenoid, and take a jumper wire from the red battery side on the solenoid and jump it to the post on the solenoid that has the small yellow/red wire. This will crank the starter over and start up the motor if there are no issues on that side of the woods.

To kill the motor you can either jump the kill switch wire from the pack to ground (black/yellow wire), or you can simply turn the red lever on the primer solenoid 180 degrees. This will effectively "flood" the cylinder out until the engine bogs down and stalls. If you get the engine to start by this method, you issue is with the control box/wiring on the boat side.

I recommend buying a remote starter for this test. They are $15 at advanced auto. I like them to check compression also, because you can keep the key switch off and test compression right there at the back of the motor. This will also allow you to spin the motor over without having to ground the spark plug leads.

Saw you were on, was hoping to clarify some of the above info before i head out to run my tests.

So. You mentioned removing the "boat side electrical " ? That sounds like the battery connections, no? Figure i would need it.hooked up for power.

And im unsure if i can locate the proper spot on the pack to kill the motor, so ill probably just flood it. That won't hurt anything im assuming?

Also. How heavy of wire am i going to need to jump the solenoid?

Also if everything does seem ok, im going to test the dead man's switch in the control box. How could i confirm its functionality or failure?

Thanks man
 

urbanredneck

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
111
Ill post a little update here.


So, I went out and was getting set to do my tests. I was able to acquire a remote starter dealio from a co worker. it wouldn't work. every time I hit the button on the device, it'd push the starter gear up onto the flywheel and give it one little "brrrvrrp" twist, and back down it went. like I had no battery power. which I did. unsure what I was doing wrong there.

SO..i put in an inline spark tester and went to try the key ignition. was sunny, took me a few turns and correct shading of spark tester to see if I was getting spark, which I was. On the 4th or 5th crank, the dang motor starts out of nowhere. Soo essentially my troubleshooting came to an end. No idea what the ghost failure was.

SO, next I run compression. last test was 120 up top, 115 on the bottom. I'm now down to 90 on bottom, same strong 120, 122 up top. so it seems I have more serious issues at hand. I leave the motor all week.

fast forward to today. I decided to go grab the boat, to do a little put put around on the river then afterward to a nice de-carb this weekend.

Fill up the garbage can, aaaaand I'm back to square 1. No start. I sat out there for almost 2 hours until she finally started. at one point in my efforts, it'd crank once, abruptly stop, and id here a shock type sound coming from what I thought was one of the power packs on the left side of the motor. sounded as if you grounded out a positive battery terminal. like an electrical pop. happened numerous times. was odd.

Finally decided to relax and leave it alone for a bit. I go grab a Corona. I come back and try again. Low and behold, she turns over. Then once warmed up< starts first crank every time. I am so lost folks. no clue even where to begin. figured if anyone reads this update, maybe my details will spark some memories.

and before anyone asks, yes I did have spark, fuel during this last go around. Checked everything once it wouldn't start after an hour...

OH almost forgot. I finally canned the VRO. with everything going on, I need the peace of mind in that area. don't want to keep sucking water out of the reservoir, or risk further damaging a powerhead.

Big thanks to Sutor, whos been giving me 1 on 1 assistance over the last couple of days, and everyone else whos taken the time to help me.

I do still think theres some failure somewhere in the motor. the fact that it runs and starts fine everytime after the initial BS confuses me.

Plans are to re run compression test after the de carb, and go for head gasket from there if no improvement. any further suggestions on that, and the starting issue would as always, be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!
 
Last edited:

sutor623

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
4,087
Hey bud sorry to hear this. When she wont start I still want you to disconnect the boat side electrical like
We talked about and see if that helps. It will help you isolate the short
That you are dealing with. Something is grounding out here, where ther a bare wire or a bad switch.
 

urbanredneck

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
111
Hey bud sorry to hear this. When she wont start I still want you to disconnect the boat side electrical like
We talked about and see if that helps. It will help you isolate the short
That you are dealing with. Something is grounding out here, where ther a bare wire or a bad switch.

I tried that though. Maybe i didn't have the remote starter on the correct posts.

So you think when the motor finally does fires is just luck? Id concur with your theory. But once she finally does start, it'll turn over first try every time after that. Doesn't make much sense...
 
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