what is the sign of a bad starter for a Johnson 90 hp v4?

ib18

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what is the sign of a bad starter for a 1982 Johnson 90 hp v4? I am dreaded to open the starter up to clean it, but I have experienced some occasional starter non-engaging. I cranked the motor, but the starter will make squeaking sound without engaging.the flywheel. Is it bad and time to open it up to decarb the starter or buy a new starter? So, it happens on my last outing especially when the motor was shut off and engine is cold after 2 hours of fishing. Sometimes, it starts right up in the first crank of key, other times just squeak but no engaging flywheel.
 

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racerone

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They are elegantly easy to take apart for inspection / new brushes.-----Take an ohm reading from shaft to commutator when it is apart.----Should read infinity on the meter !
 

emdsapmgr

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You can perform a simple test. Get a set of automotive jumper cables and a known strong battery. Jump the starter direct with the cables. If the starter cranks the engine normal speed, it's ok. If not, you'll need to tear into it.
 

F_R

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If is squeaking, it obviously needs a drop of oil in the bushings. Perhaps you can do that to the upper one without removing or dis-assembling it.

EDIT: There were two types used that year, with field coils and with permanent magnets for fields. The head-scratcher for the PM ones is how to hold the brushes down. Secret is a notched wide putty knife.

EDIT, EDIT: Pondering on it for a couple of minutes, perhaps the permanent magnets are shattered and jamming the armature. If that is the case, it is fatal and new starter time. Two ways to shatter the magnets: Drop it, or hit it with a hammer (in an effort to make it work).
 
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interalian

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Not to hijack, but for the permanent magent version (Bosch America on mine), what's the minimum length for the 4 brushes?
 

racerone

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I install new brushes at $ 5.00 a set.---Hardly worth re-using them.
 

ib18

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You can perform a simple test. Get a set of automotive jumper cables and a known strong battery. Jump the starter direct with the cables. If the starter cranks the engine normal speed, it's ok. If not, you'll need to tear into it.

ok, i will do the test later today and let you know.
 

ib18

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If is squeaking, it obviously needs a drop of oil in the bushings. Perhaps you can do that to the upper one without removing or dis-assembling it.

EDIT: There were two types used that year, with field coils and with permanent magnets for fields. The head-scratcher for the PM ones is how to hold the brushes down. Secret is a notched wide putty knife.

EDIT, EDIT: Pondering on it for a couple of minutes, perhaps the permanent magnets are shattered and jamming the armature. If that is the case, it is fatal and new starter time. Two ways to shatter the magnets: Drop it, or hit it with a hammer (in an effort to make it work).
No I didn't drop it nor hammer it when it was not working. The thing about it is I crank my key, and sometimes no sound or just squeaking but no flywheel engaged, and it is happening more often since my last trip in 2015 and this weekend's outing after 2 hours fishing (engine was cold totally from before).
 

F_R

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I didn't mean to imply that YOU beat on it with a hammer---somebody else may have before you got your hands on it.

Could that squeaking be called a fast buzz or vibration sound? If it is, clean those battery cable terminals. Don't just look at them or wiggle them, take them apart and clean everything shiny bright.
 

ib18

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Found the starter problem I think, bad connection because the base of the screw where the brush cable connect to the positive power got oxidized and turned into green white as pictured circled in RED. I cleaned the contacts, and they are shiny new. But, I cannot pull the commutator out so I cannot put the base back. Bummer. Almost done, Uh so close. How do i pull the front out of the casing? or the front cannot be separated? I don't think so, but how do i pull it apart?
 

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ib18

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can the black be separated from the chrome piece of my starter motor? please help if yes. I have no clue how to separate the 2 pieces. I cannot put the base back without the middle bar pulled from the front.
 

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F_R

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offhand, I am fairly sure it will come apart there, but why? Why can't you get the bottom end back on? Is it because you can't hold the brushes in place? Go back and read my advice about the notched putty knife.
 

F_R

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Like this
 

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ib18

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offhand, I am fairly sure it will come apart there, but why? Why can't you get the bottom end back on? Is it because you can't hold the brushes in place? Go back and read my advice about the notched putty knife.
Thx a million, didn't understand before and now that's crystal clear. Thx again
 

ib18

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Voila!!! It would not be possible without your HELP! Thank you very very much! IBOATS ROCK!!!
 

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