Need help with E-rude 130hp idle issues............

sutor623

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Hey fellas,

Motor is a 1995 Evinrude 130 hp looper, E130TXAOR.

Got her after she was setting for 5-6 years. I replaced the VRO diaphrams, changed the fuel lines, fuel filters, rebuilt the carburetors and put in new waterpump & thermostats.

Compression in the motor is 135psi in all 4 cylinders. Did a decarb with seafoam and cleaned the piston heads up nicely (from what I can see into the spark plug holes. Spark is strong on all 4 cylinders, and DVA voltage is correct off all 4 ignition coils. Disconnected VRO due to faulty alarm. Running pre-mix. Spark plugs look good.

The motor idles great in neutral at about 1000rpms. Put her in gear and the idle speed is at 700-750 rpms and she will just cut off after a few seconds. If I give it more gas and keep the idle speed at 900rpms I have no trouble. Boat gets right on plane, and cruise and WOT is excellent. Doesn't gimme a lick of trouble in those areas.

Every once in a while she will take 3-4 starts to get her to fire, even if motor is still warm. Will sometimes lose pressure in primer bulb. Have to advance the throttle quite a bit to get her to fire. Also, when I take er out of gear and put er in neutral, the idle speed will stay up at 1200-1400rpms for about 10 seconds, then will drop back down into the 900-1000 range. Also, sometimes it will surge a few times until it settles back in at a neutral idle. I tried to back out the idle air mixture screws from the recommended 2 1/4 turns out, to a full 3 turns out.

Maybe I have an air leak at one of the fuel fittings? Cant see any gas dripping anywhere. Possible that I didn't clean the carbs well enough? I used a carb cleaning solution and blew them clean with compressed air................
 

sutor623

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Should I just order a new fuel pump and scratch the VRO with the plugged oiler??
 

sutor623

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I also cleaned the throttle bodies as well as I could, although I did not remove the core plug. Does anyone know where the check valves are in these motors? Please guys, I have helped everyone that I can on these forums. I just cant seem to figure this thing out.
 

racerone

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Have you looked into issues with crankcase compression ?----There have been problems with crankshaft sealing rings.
 

sutor623

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Yikes, I surely hope not. How would I check crankcase compression? These crankcase sealing rings that you speak of are on the pistons under the main rings?
 
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sutor623

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Also, Racer, this thing idles very well at 900-1000rpms. While idling in neutral or at very slight throttle you wouldn't even think there was an issue.

I have been hearing to check/change the check valves, but I am not sure where they are located. I cannot find them on the E-rude diagram on marine engine .com
 

racerone

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Crankshaft seal rings are found on the crankshaft and they seal the crankcases.---As you must know your motor has 4 seperate crankcases that must be sealed / seperated from each other !
 

sutor623

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Crankshaft seal rings are found on the crankshaft and they seal the crankcases.---As you must know your motor has 4 seperate crankcases that must be sealed / seperated from each other !


Yea, thanks. I am getting good crankcase compression at least on cylinder 2 because I am getting ample fuel flow and air pressure from the fuel pump pulse fitting. Motor runs like a top at cruise and WOT. Wouldn't bad crankcase compression cause an issue at the corresponding cylinder at WOT also? Maybe also a lean/rich condition? I have checked the cylinders after numberous runs. Spark plugs look good and no hot spots on the pistons.

Do you know where the check valves are on this motor? I have heard they are on the metal intake manifolds. I haven't replaced those. I think I did a good job at cleaning the carbs, but maybe not. I dismantled everything and cleaned them with seafoam spray and compressed air. I was afraid to use carb cleaner on plastic carbs. Seafoam spray claims to remove varnish. I let them soak for a bit in it before really blowing them all out with carb cleaner.

I did spray the orifices in the intake manifold real good and then blew em out, but didn't remove the core plug to check/clean the idle circulation chamber.

When I rebuilt my VRO I plugged the oil part due to a faulty alarm, I did slightly crack the housing, but just the outer spot around the screw mounting section, not actually where the seal comes together. I still plan on replacing it as soon as I find out if I need 1 or 2 fuel pump bodies for this motor.
 

sutor623

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Sooooo, number 11 are the crankcase boost ports. They have little vacuum lines that run into T's and then go right in behind where the intake manifolds meet the crankcase. I am guessing this is where the check valves are located? Do these check valves flow IN towards the carburetors or OUT towards the crankcase? I am guessing the check valves prevent the crank case pressure from backing up into the carbs?
 

racerone

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Yes you are guessing !!!!!!!!!----The check valves have nothing to do with the carburetors.-These valves get rid of puddled fuel / oil and send it to the various cylinders.--Do you have a factory manuel ????
 
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sutor623

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Yes you are guessing !!!!!!!!!----The check valves have nothing to do with the carburetors.-These valves get rid of puddled fuel / oil and send it to the various cylinders.--Do you have a factory manuel ????


I am waiting on my manual right now. But from what I understand, the check valves prevent the crankcase from leaking pressure/fluids OUT. I see now that a line runs from each cylinder on the crank side, to the check valves which are screwed into the block just behind the intake manifolds.There is a check valve for each cylinder. I just checked all four valves, and two of them are leaking BACKWARDS. This means I am losing crankcase pressure through the faulty check valves, correct?

So technically, I DO have a crankcase compression leak on two cylinders because of theses valves?
 

racerone

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?????--------I give up coaching !!----Consult your manual when it arrives.
 

RoyE

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Pete,

I think the check valves are too small to make a significant difference in crankcase pressure when they are broken.
The check valves should only allow flow FROM the intake TO the cylinders. Their function is, like racerone stated, to get rid of puddled fuel/oil in the intake and send to the cylinders. I have had idle issues because all four were broken, leading to trim sensitive idle and an engine that was running too rich when trimming down (coughing, stalling).

Also, check if the float bowls of the carburators are straight by placing them upside down on a piece of glass or something, mine were warped and therefore probably had air leaks. It can cause strange problems.

What is your idle timing? My manual stated 8 +/- 2 degrees ATDC but i ended up at 4-5 degrees ATDC as it would otherwise die when idling in gear (running a 25 ballistic 4 blade or 28 chopper). Mine ran about 650 RPM in gear.

Make sure you have no air leaks anywhere in the intake/fuel lines.

Did you perform a complete link & sync? Make sure the throttle plates are perfectly synchronized and closed when at idle.

Then again, the loopers don't idle really well and my 130 looper really didn't like idling around in gear. Sounds like you have yours running pretty good apart from the idling around in gear.
 

sutor623

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Pete,

I think the check valves are too small to make a significant difference in crankcase pressure when they are broken.
The check valves should only allow flow FROM the intake TO the cylinders. Their function is, like racerone stated, to get rid of puddled fuel/oil in the intake and send to the cylinders. I have had idle issues because all four were broken, leading to trim sensitive idle and an engine that was running too rich when trimming down (coughing, stalling).

Also, check if the float bowls of the carburators are straight by placing them upside down on a piece of glass or something, mine were warped and therefore probably had air leaks. It can cause strange problems.

What is your idle timing? My manual stated 8 +/- 2 degrees ATDC but i ended up at 4-5 degrees ATDC as it would otherwise die when idling in gear (running a 25 ballistic 4 blade or 28 chopper). Mine ran about 650 RPM in gear.

Make sure you have no air leaks anywhere in the intake/fuel lines.

Did you perform a complete link & sync? Make sure the throttle plates are perfectly synchronized and closed when at idle.

Then again, the loopers don't idle really well and my 130 looper really didn't like idling around in gear. Sounds like you have yours running pretty good apart from the idling around in gear.


Thanks for responding Roy, these loopers can be finnicky at idle. I'll keep in touch I'll let ya know what's up once I check my timing and my carb bowls for warpage. I may have an air leak somewhere else. Hard to find.
 
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sutor623

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?????--------I give up coaching !!----Consult your manual when it arrives.


And Racer, not really sure how/why I ticked you off. Believe it or not I have a lot of hands on experience with outboards. Just never worked on a dual head Looper. And this girl had been setting so long, there was a lot of fuel problems. You jumped right to crankcase compression, when there is no real way to check that except by process of elimination. All I was saying was if the check valve is bad from upper to lower crank bearings, or the four check valves that run from crankcase to behind cylinders are bad, then it is possible for crankcase pressure to move BACK into the intake throats. I have researched the recirculation systems on these motors and they are often overlooked.

I value your opinions/experience on here, along with many others.

Anyways, I am going to change the bad check valves out and check the system thoroughly for leaks. I feel like I am pulling air from somewhere. Still have a bit of a lean sneeze as far as I can tell. I just want to rule out all other possibilities before I RE-tear down these carbs/intake manifolds. Being a plastic carbed system, I am suspicious that my carb cleaning solution (seafoam spray) was not ample enough to clean out these jokers. Was afraid to use anything that is harsher.........
 

racerone

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You really don't understand the purpose and the working of those 4 check valves !!!!!----Nothing to do with leaking BACK into the intake throats !!!!
 

sutor623

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You really don't understand the purpose and the working of those 4 check valves !!!!!----Nothing to do with leaking BACK into the intake throats !!!!


Alright. Well I got some clear hose and am going to check the system for air leaks at idle. I also noticed that the last owner used zip ties and SS hose clamps on lots of the fuel fittings. Is there a part number for the newer designed plastic hose clamps? They arent on the parts diagram.........
 
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