196x Johnson 35 / 33

Willyclay

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A bud of mine almost lost his sailboat to an onboard fire that the insurance claims adjuster identified as "reversed polarity in the battery". I never heard of that before but I guess anything is possible. Good luck!
 
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catbones

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A bud of mine almost lost his sailboat to an onboard fire that the insurance claims adjuster identified as "reversed polarity in the battery". I never heard of that before but I guess anything is possible. Good luck!


That's what I don't want, I hear you.
 

catbones

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I did go and have the battery tested at advanced, they said its all in good standing. So, battery I guess is not it.
 

catbones

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So tomorrow, I will go ahead and redo the positive and negative terminals, connectors and wires using 6 gauge wires I think I have that recently purchased. Will see if that helps. I also ran a 16 gauge wire from the side mount of the kill switch to battery ground, that the two wires per my wire connect together which is grounding I'm guessing the one white wire that comes from the solenoid, just in case that white one isn't doing its job.

Here's the update... screenshot.

 

oldboat1

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You must use a wiring diagram for your model. That cut-off switch is a safety switch that prevents over-revving, not a kill switch per se. If using a mounting bolt somehow as a link in your kill switch connection (-), may or may not work for your kill switch (grounding) operation -- but would have nothing to do with that vacuum switch. Use a wiring diagram to confirm placement of kill switch wiring. (and none of that, in turn, would have anything to do with your starting circuit as far as I can tell.)

edit -- good the battery was tested out OK.
 
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catbones

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You must use a wiring diagram for your model. That cut-off switch is a safety switch that prevents over-revving, not a kill switch per se. If using a mounting bolt somehow as a link in your kill switch connection (-), may or may not work for your kill switch (grounding) operation -- but would have nothing to do with that vacuum switch. Use a wiring diagram to confirm placement of kill switch wiring. (and none of that, in turn, would have anything to do with your starting circuit as far as I can tell.)

edit -- good the battery was tested out OK.

I did examine the wiring, its the first post on page two of this threat, posted by F_R. Looks like the white wire from solenoid goes to that junction on the side of the kill switch and then another white wire goes up to the safety switch which is grounded also. Which looking at it and tests, it seemed that I had to ground that white wire from solenoid to that junction for my solenoid to work. So I was thinking that maybe the safety switch wasn't really grounding itself right with the bolt and placement of metal. So I sort of double grounded it to make sure.

It's just my trying to figure it all out. Old solenoid wouldn't work unless I grounded that white wire from the solenoid to the side of the cut off switch, that connects with the wire from the safety switch.

Actually even more weird, with a new solenoid installed, I had to put the white solenoid white wire on that pole first, the wire going to the safety switch second for my solenoid to work. Weird huh?

Maybe a bad safety switch? But that wouldn't be stopping from my solenoid to engage tho
 

oldboat1

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nah, think that vacuum switch/safety switch gets blamed quite often. But think you are right -- bad switch wouldn't affect starter circuit (keyswitch/solenoid/starter), but could stop ignition (one cylinder, I think). It looks to me like you are using the switch's mounting bolt as a ground point for the kill switch -- really a junction point for a ground wire between the switch and the magneto. If comfortable with that, in keeping with the wiring diagram...... should be ok. And could by gosh work. (not going through the safety switch, just using the ground circuit going to the magneto). That solenoid you reference -- that's the one bolted to the pan? When I went through the solenoid thing some time ago, think I found some solenoids don't ground through their case -- presumably would work properly if ground with an extra ground wire (essentially what I did with a solenoid attached to the wood carrier I was using to test motor). Think I posted a picture of that in another thread ('57 Johnson electric). Working now? Yes? (and no smoke....)
 

catbones

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nah, think that vacuum switch/safety switch gets blamed quite often. But think you are right -- bad switch wouldn't affect starter circuit (keyswitch/solenoid/starter), but could stop ignition (one cylinder, I think). It looks to me like you are using the switch's mounting bolt as a ground point for the kill switch -- really a junction point for a ground wire between the switch and the magneto. If comfortable with that, in keeping with the wiring diagram...... should be ok. And could by gosh work. (not going through the safety switch, just using the ground circuit going to the magneto). That solenoid you reference -- that's the one bolted to the pan? When I went through the solenoid thing some time ago, think I found some solenoids don't ground through their case -- presumably would work properly if ground with an extra ground wire (essentially what I did with a solenoid attached to the wood carrier I was using to test motor). Think I posted a picture of that in another thread ('57 Johnson electric). Working now? Yes? (and no smoke....)

From what I found out, automotive solenoid which seems is a quick fix for these and maybe cheaper unless you look, are the solenoid that need to be able to ground by attaching to the base with grounding source since the backing plate is direct connection to mounting plate. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

However the on motor solenoid for outboards, they have a rubber separator with a mounter so no grounding happens through the mount but rather thought the small terminal on the solenoid, through the bolt on the cut off switch through the safety switch.

That said, looks like my previous owner has taken not only a route of rewiring the motor, using put together cables and bypassing a broken solenoid on the motor, but the route you described by mounting another solenoid on the transom, grounding it, and running it to the motor. Which was my surprise when I decided to properly rewire because my motor wouldn't die on switch off setting, finding out the thing starts right away without ignition by taking the transom solenoid out. PO bypassed with positive directly to the starter.

I'm getting close, hopefully my work today will make it work right now. Unless I need a solenoid new again, but its not clicking so I'm guessing it's fine
 

oldboat1

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Notes. Make lots of notes. Think you have it right on solenoid grounding issues. Trick is to remember it five years from now when there is another project. Know what you mean about prior mysteries -- Did a couple of smaller motors this spring, and had to figure out PO rewiring on one, taking it back to original. But my shop time is cheap....
 

catbones

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Notes. Make lots of notes. Think you have it right on solenoid grounding issues. Trick is to remember it five years from now when there is another project. Know what you mean about prior mysteries -- Did a couple of smaller motors this spring, and had to figure out PO rewiring on one, taking it back to original. But my shop time is cheap....


Yes, notes, and saving images in my mind for anything else... I went through 10 sets of setups, tested every single cable on the motor. It does seem like the grounding is an issue so I cleaned every point that is attached or screwed into the base for grounding. I've added the extra black wire from ground to that middle setting, based on wiring.

Then, after all test I had it working one way bypassing the console wires ... so basically running two wires from the top of the small terminals on the solenoid to the ignition. One wire I grounded on the motor and one attached to the "S" start on the ignition switch. BANG! it works... alright. So maybe its the white wires why its not firing up.

So, cleaned both ends of both of the white wires for the solenoids, cleaned the plug connectors that are within the motor (THE BIG PLUG) with some sand paper I put in there and twisted. Still nothing.

One thing did come to mind; since I've been tugging the wires for the ignition while hooking stuff up like the lights, ignition switch etc.. maybe, possibly, maybe that one white wire, the ignition start wire got lose some how in my connections... maybe the connector let lose or something, maybe not enough grip or compressed enough. It's possible I was doing this in like 100F outside and got tired, so maybe. Worth a check but will un-tape the first part to reveal all wires and tug see if anything is lose.

That's exactly what I did, untaped, revealed white, brown, red and purple with stripe wire.. and then gave each one a light tug.. BANG! white wire just slid right out without much of anything. I was right, my connector didn't grab it hard enough and let the wire lose which wasn't making the connection. Connected that with one of those quick connectors, re-did all of them since the connectors actually cut into the wire rather then hold them and taped them again properly.

Test time... so hooked everything back the way it was, screwed every bit of whatever back on the motor, put the cover up... connected the battery wires, connected the wires to the ignition and ..... WOOHOOO!! it started like a champ! no hesitation or nothing.

Great, so tomorrow I'll have to go through all other wiring see why my horn, pump works but my lights don't. Probably these cheap butt connectors don't hold a thing.
 

catbones

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annnd..... maybe just run in the daytime:).


Nahh! I like this functioning fully... already did a splash with half of stuff hanging around to make sure she don't leak. Now just gotta finish.
 

catbones

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Time has come to thank all of you for helping and trying to help. I appreciate that and more. I believe at this point I've got all of the wiring figured out and she starts right up without hesitation. I hope everything else is wired properly, looks to be but only time will tell. Last but not least, if I can ask; any ideas or suggestions how to protect the cables that sit on the transom? is there a jacket of some sort one can put them into. Thanks again!
 

Tim Frank

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There all kinds of after market wire-wraps and cable guards. Check NAPA....or if you are north of the border, Canadian Tire or Princess Auto.
 

racerone

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Wires to the magneto should never ever have 12 volts on them !---A magneto does not use 12 volts to make spark.
 
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