1999 40HP Force Carb Issue

[steelyonfly]

1999 40 ELPT, Ser # OE354368: Last week I took off the carb and cleaned it. I soaked it in carburetor cleaning solvent called Chem-Dip. This may have been overkill, but that's what I did. I replaced the float, needle jet, gaskets, and float pin. I have cleaned and replaced these parts before with only having to adjust the mixture, idle, and linkages to get it running well again. However, this was he first time I soaked the whole carb in cleaning solution. The motor won't start and it is doing something I've never seen before on any carburetor.

See attached photo. The arrow points to the location where when I crank the motor, gas will squirt out. It doesn't do it on the first crank. It squirts on the 3rd or 4th crank once gas has been pumped to the carb. Never had this happen before.

Could this be the Primer Nozzle that is bad or is some adjustment out of whack to make it squirt out of the hole. See Carburetor.pdf attached for item #13. Unfortunately, this part is no longer available.

 

[Frank Acampora]

That is the atmospheric vent for the bowl. If you have gas squirting out of there you certainly will have gas squirting out the venture nozzle, flooding the engine.

The fuel pump can deliver way more than the carb needs. You either have a float that is hanging up or a bad inlet needle. The float adjusted incorrectly can also cause this.

Remove the carb. Turn it upside-down and blow through the fuel inlet. If you can blow any air at all, the inlet needle or seat is bad. It should seal with just the weight of the float pressing on the needle.

 

[steelyonfly]

Thank you, Frank. I forgot to mention one thing I did that may well lead to the same conclusion. I blew through this atmospheric vent and I could see gas flooding into the carb. Would this be another indication as you diagnosed?

I still have the float I replaced and it looked like it was in very good condition. I'm not sure if it's the original one, but it has a metal tab that pushes against the needle jet instead the a plastic one as on the new float I installed. I replaced it anyway. I will check it out and see if the different floats make any difference in the needle seating properly. I will do that and let the forum know the result. Have a great week.

 

[steelyonfly]

Frank and other posters, I have gone out and pulled the carb. See new image attached.

As suggested, I blew through the fuel inlet (See yellow arrow in photo) with the carb upside down and could not force any air through. I also reinstalled the float that I took off and the result was the same. Just to test it, I turned the carb right side up and blew through and I could feel that air was getting through. Same for both floats. It seems to me that this is as it should be. If not, let me know. As for being adjusted correctly, I'd guess the float should lay parallel to the float housing. Is that correct?

I noticed something else, though. The Main Nozzle inside of the "tower" where the main jet screws into the side (See red circle in photo) is gunked up with what looks like corrosion on the brass Main Nozzle. I am certain that this was not there before I soaked the carb in the Chem-Dip solution. I do not find any other brass or non-brass areas with this green corrosion.

The Main Nozzle appears to have a small diameter tube inside of it, but I'm not sure if that's part of the Main Nozzle or not. This tube is almost 100% clogged with this corrosion. I am going to attempt to remove the Main Nozzle with a high quality hollow-ground screw driver set that I have. Hopefully it will come out so I can clean it. I remember trying last time I cleaned the carb and it was so tight I didn't want to apply anymore pressure in case something broke. Then I'd be . I'd really like to get this motor running well again for a Bass Tourney I am going to fish in soon.

So, it seems that the mystery may still be unsolved. I'll have to work on it this week. Needle seems to seat correctly with the float. Maybe it's this Main Nozzle clog that's causing the fuel to squirt out of the Atmospheric Vent. What do you think?

 

[steelyonfly]

Frank and other posters, I have gone out and pulled the carb. See new image attached.

As suggested, I blew through the fuel inlet (See yellow arrow in photo) with the carb upside down and could not force any air through. I also reinstalled the float that I took off and the result was the same. Just to test it, I turned the carb right side up and blew through and I could feel that air was getting through. Same for both floats. It seems to me that this is as it should be. If not, let me know. As for being adjusted correctly, I'd guess the float should lay parallel to the float housing. Is that correct?

I noticed something else, though. The Main Nozzle inside of the "tower" where the main jet screws into the side (See red circle in photo) is gunked up with what looks like corrosion on the brass Main Nozzle. I am certain that this was not there before I soaked the carb in the Chem-Dip solution. I do not find any other brass or non-brass areas with this green corrosion, so that seems odd.

The Main Nozzle appears to have a small diameter tube inside of it, but I'm not sure if that's part of the Main Nozzle or not. This tube is almost 100% clogged with this corrosion. I am going to attempt to remove the Main Nozzle with a high quality hollow-ground screw driver set that I have. Hopefully it will come out so I can clean it. I remember trying last time I cleaned the carb and it was so tight I didn't want to apply anymore pressure in case something broke. Then I'd be . I'd really like to get this motor running well again for a Bass Tourney I am going to fish in soon.

So, it seems that the mystery may still be unsolved. I'll have to work on it this week. Needle seems to seat correctly with the float. Maybe it's this Main Nozzle clog that's causing the fuel to squirt out of the Atmospheric Vent. What do you think?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Post a pic of the "new" float.
The replacement floats are usually crap.
99% of the time all the carb needs is a good cleaning.
The carb soaks can actually screw things up.
I use Dawn detergent and a tooth brush and clear water and an air hose.
The Dawn will get most crud out.

The green stuff is a chemical reaction, probably to the soak.
Get it apart and use soft scrub or any powdered cleaner like Ajax or Comet.
Scrub the green off.
I use an orifice or tip cleaner to open the jets.

 

[steelyonfly]

The new float does look like a piece of junk, is all plastic, and it's shape is very basic. There would be no way to adjust it. The old float's shape appears to be more fitting to the carb's interior design and it has a metal tab that pushes against the needle when it drops. As I mentioned above, but with more clarity here, I think when the carb is held upside down and the float is installed it should lay horizontal to the float housing - where you see the cork gasket in the picture. If that's not correct, please let me know. I will reuse the old float and get the green corrosion cleaned up. I'll put up a pic of both floats tonight. Thanks for your help.

 

[Frank Acampora]

If you blow air through the atmospheric vent, you are putting the whole bowl under pressure and any gas in it will squirt up the main nozzle into the carb. The small tube inside the main nozzle is the feed for the low speed circuit. In order to remove it you need to remove the small welsh plug on top and push it out the top of the carb. If you do decide to remove it be careful: There is a specific way it must be reinstalled. It must at the bottom contact either the front or back of the main nozzle--I forget which. Look at yours BEFORE disassembling.

Brass is a mixture of copper and tin. Ever see old church roofs where the copper has corroded green from age? Old Chrysler manuals warned NOT to use carb soaks to avoid damaging the sealers and brass parts.

 

[steelyonfly]

I got the carb cleaned up as best I could. I didn't have an orifice or tip cleaner, but I still think I got things cleaned up better than it's ever been before.

I was able to get the Main Nozzle out and got it all cleaned up. The small tube inside the Main Nozzle wasn't removed, but I still think I got it cleaned up well. I used Gumout Carb cleaner spray this time. It seems that all the jet opening and venturi's were clear.

I've got the carb back on now, so I'll find out in a day or so how it runs. Hopefully, it runs.

As requested, I've added more picks of the different floats and how they hang down when resting on the needle. At the very least, I hope this helps someone else with their battles.

 

[steelyonfly]

Gentlemen,

I'm still here without a running motor, at least, not now. I put the carb back on and got the motor started and it ran just fine albeit a little fast at idle three days ago. No probs with gas coming out of Atmospheric vent though! Since it was getting dark I decided to tackle the idle issue the next day.

Next eve I started motor and it ran fine for a few seconds and then sputtered and died. I tried to start it again and couldn't. Noticed it was squirting gas again out of vent when I cranked it. It's definitely being flooded. Took off carb, tested if float floats ok in gas, it did, could not find that float was hanging up anywhere, float appears to be adjusted properly when installed, needle valve moves up and down with the float, needle appears to be fine, connections of gas lines was correct, before I last installed it I blew out everything with compressed air, no obstructions as best as I could tell...........

Could there be a stopper of some kind that is supposed to sit inside the atmospheric vent that might have come out? I don't see anything in schematics available online. Anyone have advice??????

I'm frustrated because I can't think of anything else to do.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Thanks for the pic of the float.
The "new" is a piece of S%$*!!!!
The "new" parts?? did it include a new needle?
Use the old one.
The needles, post a pic.
The tips of the needles are they rubber or solid?
If they are solid, when you soaked the carb you might have ate the seal in the seat???
Pics of EVERYHING ??
The vent is there to tell you something's wrong, if it was blocked off the fuel would go right into the motor and choke it out.

Since the carbs off, look into the reeds and see if they are ok.
Reset the float again.
Make sure there is nothing in the seat.

The float drop is as important as the level.

 

[steelyonfly]

JerryJerry, I got it running! I took the carb off AGAIN and went back through everything. Used compressed air again to blow out all ports, vents, seats, tubes, venturis and anything else I could find that might be harboring some crud. Apparently, I blew it out. What it was or where it was ... got me. I'm glad it's gone. Lesson learned ... DON'T BE LAZY AND NOT PREP MOTOR FOR OFF SEASON!

It seems to be running fine, but it's a 2 stroke smoker. Running 50:1 gas to oil ratio as recommended, so I wonder if air/fuel mixture adjustment or idle adjustment could reduce the smoking. Any suggestions? Would reducing the ratio be asking for trouble on a 1999 motor?

Thanks all!

 

[jerryjerry05]

They recommend 50-1 for a reason.
It will keep your motor from doing damage to itself.
No or lower oil = repair $$$

Some oils like Amsol says it reduces smoke?
It's too expensive for me.


If you run the motor it will eventually burn all the extra oil from the system.