89 Force 125 Timing at 0 when idling. Normal?

777funk

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
150
I checked with the plugs out at WOT and got 28 degrees. With the engine running, I see 0 degrees at idle. Is this ok?
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
That is not correct. For if the timing is at zero when idling that means the throttles are fully closed hence the engine will not run or idle at all unless the adjustable rod connecting the timing tower to the throttle linkage is not set correctly. At idle, usually the timing will be around 3~5 degrees BTDC. In your case, it means the timing tower connections to the throttle linkage is not set properly. So what is the effect of your set up with motor performance? It means the throttles are not at horizontal when the timing tower pushes the timing mechanism to 28 degrees. You might want to check your throttles at WOT position.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
because all engines are set slightly different, timing at idle is never specified in the manual. Go to the top of the page and watch the video on synchronizing timing and carbs. Also read the sticky on this subject.
 

777funk

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
150
Thanks for the replies guys.

I watched your video Frank and thanks! I checked it (Grounded plugs etc) and at WOT cranking not running, I get 28deg BTDC as I mentioned above. I think that's safe. I could probably go to 30 as you recommended in your videos but I figure I'd leave it if the idle thing is ok... not sure there.

Jiggz, the butterflies are both wide open (completely parallel to the ground) when I open the throttle fully at the control. So I think that means all's well, is that correct? And they are infact fully closed (or very close to it) in neutral.
 
Last edited:

SkiDad

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
1,518
This is an interesting thread. i know my dad recently set his idle this way at 0. Makes me nervous that it's way off, but he said it ran real good.
 

777funk

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
150
I actually didn't set it using idle as reference. I just happened to have the timing light out and thought I'd see what idle looks like. Idle read zero.
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
Well, if it is running good at this settings I guess you can just leave it alone. But there are some criteria that need to be in synch when initially checking the timing is actually set at zero. First is the top cylinder to be in TDC. Second, the zero timing mark on the flywheel should be zero'ed with the stationary marker. Third, the carbs' throttles must be fully shut meaning all carb's throttle arms or levers should be in their resting state (this is usually indicated with the alignment of the eccentric screw slot to that of the cam's pick up point or notch marking), thus the throttle shutters or "butterflies" should be fully closed and lastly, the idle screw must be resting against the block but not pushing. At this point you are mechanically zero but you still need to verify you are electrically zero'ed using a timing light.

Verify with a timing light that the trigger is actually zero'ed. This is done by cranking over the motor with the timing light on top plug wire (plugs removed and grounded), control throttle in stop position and the timing light should indicate the zero mark on the flywheel aligned with the stationary marker. If not adjustment to the timing rod should be made. From here you can set your static WOT timing to 28~30 degrees. Thereafter, you should set you idle screw settings. After setting the idle screw, you will notice the cams' pick up marking or notch does not align with the eccentric screw slot anymore nor is the timing at zero.

In your case, it looks like the carbs are pre-loaded at zero timing which does not seriously affect the WOT timing especially if set to minimum of 28 degrees. The pre-loading can be done with the link rod adjustment (link between cam and the timing tower) without affecting the WOT timing but affects the position of the butterflies or throttle valves. In short, your idle setting is mostly controlled by the link rod rather than the idle screw at the bottom of the timing tower. The difference is that with the idle screw adjustment, you are also advancing the timing in synch with the butterflies while with the link rod, you adjust the butterflies without affecting the timing.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
ALL carbs are slightly different. Some have a slot cut in the top of the butterfly, some have several holes drilled and some have a large single hole drilled in the butterfly. The size of these holes or the slot and the relative health of the engine determines if the butterflies are fully closed at idle or partially cracked open. The ONLY IMPORTANT setting is Timing at WOT. Since everything is mechanical ALL other settings take a back seat to timing at WOT with the carb butterflies at horizontal. As I show in the video, you set butterflies to fully closed simply to establish a "zero" point. Where they end up at idle after timing and WOT is set is strictly up to the engine. DO NOT worry about timing or butterfly position at idle if you have set up the synchronizing correctly.

NOW, remember: Since the engine is always loaded by the prop in forward gear. IF you increase prop pitch, the load will increase and the idle may need to be raised using the idle stop screw.
 
Last edited:

777funk

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
150
Thanks for the detailed information Frank and Jiggz! As far as how it runs (the important part)... I had this boat on the Lake of the Ozarks (my first trip with the new/old boat) yesterday for my wife and son's birthday (same day) and here's what I found:

Idle to a touch above idle is smooth and 3/4-WOT is smooth. Everything in between is a little rough with some mis-firing. Wow! WOT is a lot of fun. Never been on a boat with this much power.

I also noticed the upper carb dripping mix a drop every 3-5 seconds. I can't tell if it's coming from the bowl flange or elsewhere. I do notice that if I prime the bulb more than needed, there are two holes with pins on the carb body that will leak. Not sure if maybe this is my problem or I have other issues.


Also, I may have a technical (choice of wording) error in my thread title based on what Jiggz mentioned. I was thinking idle was dead center on the control. This is where I get a ZERO deg timing, not in gear. Jiggz is this the "Stop" position? Dead center on the controls is what I was referring to as idle.
 
Last edited:

777funk

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
150
So it sounds like Zero Degrees with the engine purring along in the Neutral/Stop position is normal?
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Yes, for your engine!

Chrysler and Force engines tend to have a rough running range at off idle to about 2000 or so RPM then it smooths out again. It seems to be the nature of the beast.

Remember: most outboards have two speeds:Idle and full throttle At least all mine do! LOL. No sense having 150 HP and not using it.
 

777funk

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
150
Thanks Frank. Interesting on the rough running range. I'm used to OMC engines that run great anywhere on the dial.

I agree about using the horsepower! 125HP in my case. And Wow is 125HP a potent Force! I'm used to tiller handled fishing boats.
 
Last edited:

777funk

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
150
Just found this thread here:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engin...h-running-help

Looks like one other guy with a shudder mid RPMs had a bad coil or CD box. I'm almost afraid to be in that range for the sake of jerking engine parts around... maybe I have too much emotion connected to mechanical things. lol;)
 
Last edited:
Top