Finally pulled my head..top cylinder ate a ring

[scout-j-m]

Ok, I finally have somewhat of an update. I was able to pull the flywheel today after work, and with very little hassle too. The flywheel, magnets, and key all looked good. However, to me, the stator and trigger both looked not so good. The trigger has a visible crack in it and the stator appears to have melted areas. I attached some pictures so you all please give me your thoughts on the condition of both.

Stator/trigger issues aside, I went ahead and removed them both and also removed the cd module plate with holds the cd pack, coils, and rectifier. I plan to remove the fuel lines, starter, starter relay, carb, intake manifold and reeds next. In the service manual that is all that is said needs to be done before begin to unfasten the powerhead. Any tips or recommendations to do otherwise?

 

[Jiggz]

One thing for sure you will need to check the resistance of the trigger and the stator. The cracking is a sign of overheating but if the winding was not affected this can be easily fixed with some epoxy to seal it back again. However, if the resistance check is not good, then as I mentioned before you will be better off just getting a used powerhead.

 

[scout-j-m]

One thing for sure you will need to check the resistance of the trigger and the stator. The cracking is a sign of overheating but if the winding was not affected this can be easily fixed with some epoxy to seal it back again. However, if the resistance check is not good, then as I mentioned before you will be better off just getting a used powerhead.

Thanks Jiggz. I checked the resistance for both a month or so ago and both were in spec at the time. I'll bench test them both again tomorrow after work and see what I get. If they still show good I guess I will complete the rebuild and reinstall them and see if I have any issues. I guess between now and then if a good deal popped up on ebay or somewhere I could go ahead and purchase them. Can't remember what the CDI Electronics price for my stator is but the trigger is only $70 something I believe. I'm thinking the stator is closer to $200 so I def wouldn't want to buy it without knowing this one was bad.

Hopefully I can get this tore down soon and then let the machine shop measure my cylinders and then know whether I can bore this head or will be looking for a used powerhead.

 

[scout-j-m]

I haven't been able to work on the motor any more since my last post. But I was curious as to how hard it will be to lift off the powerhead? Any idea of how heavy it is fully assembled minus the head, starter, flywheel, stator and trigger, ignition components, and carb? If it's easy enough for two average strength guys to just lift it off I would prefer to do that, however, I do have a pulley I can hang from a limb and lift off with some 2" wide webbing straps....I just don't see too many good attachment areas for straps.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Less that 100 and more than 70 with pistons and crankshaft but without flywheel and electronics. Very often the base gasket will be welded to the block and you need to pry at the two pry points to loosen it before lifting.

 

[scout-j-m]

Less that 100 and more than 70 with pistons and crankshaft but without flywheel and electronics. Very often the base gasket will be welded to the block and you need to pry at the two pry points to loosen it before lifting.

Ahh, thanks! That's not bad at all. It's been raining here the past two days so hopefully tomorrow is the day to get it done. Then off to the machine shop Saturday or Monday depending on their hours.

 

[scout-j-m]

I got the motor off of the leg yesterday evening. This morning I disassembled everything up till separating the crankcase which I am stuck on. I removed all the bolts and pins including the allen head ones inside the crankcase. But I can't pry the case apart. My large screw driver just kept bending. I tapped around the edges with a rubber hammer but that didn't help. Any advice?

Update: I just got it apart. Now the new problem is I don't have the correct socket for the connecting rod screws. I thought I had 12 points that small but apparently not. Anyone know the exact size?

 

[Jiggz]

12 points 1/4" socket

 

[scout-j-m]

Luckily I was able to pick up the correct socket for the connecting rod screws Saturday night at Lowes. Yesterday afternoon I was also able to finally complete the teardown. Here are some pics of the piston from the bad cylinder. There was only one small piece of the top ring left...maybe 1/8 of it.There were also considerable chunks of the piston itself missing where it sheared off in the section between the two rings and between the top ring and top of the piston.To say it looks rough is putting it lightly lol. The last picture is a piston from one of the other good 120 psi cylinders.

Tomorrow I am going to call the machine shop I would like to use to verify they can do the work I need done and hopefully get it to them tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday morning and then I can order the rebuild parts or start the hunt for a used block or powerhead if my block is too far gone.

 

[Frank Acampora]

When you re-assemble it you need an inch pound torque wrench. Rod cap bolts are torqued to 190 inch pounds. You will need some sort of press to push the wrist pin out of the bad piston. Wiseco pistons come complete with wrist pin but you need to re-use the original con rod

 

[scout-j-m]

When you re-assemble it you need an inch pound torque wrench. Rod cap bolts are torqued to 190 inch pounds. You will need some sort of press to push the wrist pin out of the bad piston. Wiseco pistons come complete with wrist pin but you need to re-use the original con rod

Will do. I don't have any torque wrenches so now is a good time to buy. I think my buddy can press out the current wrist pins at the pump shop he works at.

 

[scout-j-m]

In the meantime, I need to be cleaning the gaskets, gunk, and dirt off of all of the powerhead parts. Does anyone have any recommendations for gasket remover? What about a gasket scraper? I was thinking just something plastic like the edge of an old credit card or an ice scraper for a car would work unless someone advises against that. As far as just general cleaning of the parts for dirt, grease, and grime would just soap and warm water be the best option?

 

[scout-j-m]

I am also striking out on a lot of the local machine shops as far as finding a place to get the boring done. What all special does an outboard boring require compared to an automotive one? I know the cylinder is tapered. Is that what limits most shops?

 

[Frank Acampora]

No, the cylinder is not tapered. If it is tapered, barrel shaped, or egg shaped, it is out of specifications. Boring restores it to a perfect cylindrical shape.

The main difficulty with boring is that the boring bar and hone can not go completely through the bore because of the main bearing mount. Thus it is considered a "blind hole" But, the cylinder liner stops about 1/2 inch above the bearing mount so a reasonably competent machine shop should be able to bore it.

 

[scout-j-m]

Oh, I was thinking it was gradually tapered down the cylinder (like a cone). I'll keep checking around. I haven't had that many misses, I have just "0-fer" so far.

 

[scout-j-m]

Good new, I found a good local shop to do the machining. They measured the cylinders and all were standard size. They told me that they could probably correct the damage boring over just +1 but recommended going to +2.

Now I need to order everything. I have seen the site linked below mentioned in another thread. Any opinions on them? It seems like a great deal at $425 depending on the shipping cost since it comes with Wiseco pistons, rings, wrist pins, needle bearings, circlips, plus a gasket kit, crankcase seals, loctite, assembly grease, etc.If I ordered all of that separate it would probably be closer to $600.

Edit: I got a call back from powerheadkit.com earlier this afternoon. Their prices on their website have gone up slightly. The 3 cylinder Force kit that was $425 is now $475. They said the shipping would be about $25. They also said they use WSM pistons and some other brand which starts with a P which I am drawing a blank on. I know many on here like Wiseco so I'd like to hear if anyone has any thoughts on the WSMs? This is the best powerhead kit deal out there that I have found. I could still buy the Wiseco piston kits, gasket set, and new crankshaft seals separately and come out about the same. There are a few things included I dont think I need, the primary one being the upper crankshaft bearing. Mine is fine and I have read where people recommend leaving them alone if they are in ok shape. I guess I would still need to buy some assembly grease, the spaghetti crankcase seal, and a couple other minor things though.

 

[scout-j-m]

So I just ordered the kit from powerheadkit.com. I said above that they told me the new price for it was $475 but when I called today to place the order a different guy told me it actually was still $425. Good news for me I guess. Shipping was a reasonable $20 so my total was $445. That is an insanely good price compared to every other kit I found. I hope it is not too good to be true. I will post back when it arrives (hopefully by the end of next week) for an unboxing of it to make sure everything promised was included and the pistons/rings are the correct size I ordered. Hopefully it is all good and others can use them in the future to save some money. They have been really good so far...they are hard to reach by phone being a working shop as well but they have promptly replied to all of my emails and voice mail messages. Now time to start scrubbing off some old gaskets and gunk. I'll check back in in a few.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Wiseco pistons cost about 125 direct from the factory BUT the give a steep mechanic's discount to shops. It is difficult to get this discount because they want to see invoices, business cards, and a photo of the shop. I could not get the discount because my little business is run out of a homeowner garage and is cash only.

At any rate, with the Wiseco discount a volume shop can afford to pass on better prices and still make a reasonable profit.

 

[scout-j-m]

I actually think this kit comes with the WSM cast pistons which seem to run about $25 cheaper than the Wisecos on the parts sites. But in the end the price was just too good to pass up.

 

[scout-j-m]

I received the kit yesterday. It came with Vertex pistons, not WSM, which I am fine with. I did receive the wrong main upper crank bearing which they are express shipping to me. Honestly, I'm not even sure I will replace the old one though. It looks fine and would have to get help pressing off the old one and on the new one. Plus one of the good rebuild threads (90HP Down Under Rebuild if I remember right) had a lock up during break in that was a result of installing one incorrectly. I figure it's one less thing to mess up. But if most advise I go ahead and put on the new one I will.

I still have to get the block machined as well. I haven't had time to take it back in and didn't think the rebuild kit would come in so fast. Hopefully I am reassembling it all by next weekend. I'm going to spend this weekend finishing up cleaning off the old gaskets and mating surfaces and washing everything.