Force Carburetor difference 632061-2 and 632061

QAT

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
8
For a while I noticed that I was not getting fire on the 3rd cylinder of my Force outboard engine 856X8A Serial 1586. After performing a spark test and compression I have narrowed down to to the posibilities of not getting fuel on that cylinder. I have good compression of 120,119,120 and I also have spark. At the begining not knowing what it could be; I purchased a spare outboard for parts: Model 856X7B serial 1923. I removed the carburetor from this engine, and cleaned it, in preparation for the swap. Today I noticed that the float needle assembly on my original carburator is different from the one on my spare. My engine carburetor has a number 632061-2 and the one on my spare is 632061. Both carburetors are out. I would install one next Saturday.
The question is? Are both carburetors the same? Just different model...?? Why the different needle assembly?? One has a rubber seat. the other has a needle with a rubber tip
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
Usually, with multi carbs engine there is a little difference with the carbs part numbering and usually indicated by dash number (i.e. -2). Technically the carbs are all the same in construction except that the bottom carb will have a t-fuel connector to feed the carb above it while the upper one will only have an "L" fuel connector. Usually, with three carbs engine like the 85HP the middle and bottom ones will have the same part number while the upper one will be different.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
17,923
The difference in the needle valve.
They found the rubber tip gave less problems than the one with the rubber seat.
The rubber seat would expand when different additives(ethanol) were put in and shut off the fuel.
That's probably why you didn't get fuel to that carb.
I just sold a set of carbs for a 1987 the guy who bought them took them apart and they had different jets????
The same year yet different part #s???
There are 13 different models made in 87 and the part change could be as small as a different bolt or a different carb???
 

QAT

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
8
Thank you.. I will install the carburetor next Saturday.. and test the engine..
 

QAT

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
8
Today I installed the carburetor.
Let me tell you about my problem. For quite some time now I noticed that there was no signs that the bottom spark plug was burning. This plug always looked brand new.. I checked the compression on my outboard: 120/119/120. Check for spark: All three cylinders have good spark.
I attended a NYC boat show back in January this year. i spoke to a boat mechanic at the show. I asked him for advise. He informed me that if I have good compression, good spark; the next thing is to check for fuel. I might have a problem with the carburetor. OK I removed the carburetor and yes it was very dirty. I cleaned and ordered a rebuilt kit. Today I installed this carburetor, ran the engine for 30 minutes and still this outboard is working on two cylinders. There is no signs of burned fuel on the bottom spark plug.
Any Idea what can be causing this.
 

Nordin

Commander
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,428
Check the reeds. If one pedal is brooken, no fuel will enter the combustionchamber.
Try to spray fuel into the bottom carb then you can figure out if there is something wrong with the carb.
If it starts to run on 3 cylinders when you spray, the reeds seams okey but the carb is not working. If nothing happens (only runing on 2 cyl.).
The reeds might be bad,
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
17,923
Sounds like the floats stuck.
Get the right size hoses and remove the carb.
Hook the hose with a squeezie to the carb.
Try to fill it(squeeze) and see if it takes fuel.
Remove the bowl. Turn t upside down, is the float level with the body?
Then right side up, how much drop in the float?
It should almost touch the post.
 

QAT

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
8
Nordin: Answer: I will start a new project and replace the reeds. Hopefully this works..

JerryJerry05: Answer: I took this carb apart, cleaned and installed every part on the rebuild kit, I made sure that the float level and needle were set up according to specs that is: Float Height 13/32. degrees carb body to float top.

On another note:
Is it normal that a two stroke engine leaves so much oil residue on the water when running the engine in a large container filled with water?
Seems like and smells like sludge of not completely burned gas.
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
There's one quick way to test if the reed is bad. I call it "wet test" The way to do it is to remove the spark plug on the suspected cylinder and then get a white table napkin balled up or you can also use a regular white paper towel. Place the balled white napkin/paper towel in front of the plug hole on the suspected cylinder and try to start the engine. Hold it approx 1"~2" away from the hole and crank the motor for about 3~5 secs. If the reed and carbs are working properly you should see a large stain of fuel/oil mix on the white paper. Since large is subjective, you can try doing the same on a known working cylinder and make comparison. If the fuel/oil stain on the suspected cylinder is too light or virtually none existent, it is most likely either the reed is bad or the carb is not working. Since you have mentioned you have spare carb, then try switching the carb with a known working carb and if the problem persists, then it is time to check the reed. However, if you decide to switch the carbs, then you might as well get a flashlight and check the reeds.
 

QAT

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
8
Hello....
Well let me tell you.: Today...
I changed the valve reeds (third for the bottom Carb) Rebuilt the Carburetor, Swapped Carburetor.. I still do not have fire on my 3rd Cylinder.
I performed the wet test. The cloth seem to get dirty with smoke but did not get wet with fuel. There is certainly no fuel entering this chamber.

Do not know whats next. Could it be a problem deeper in the crankshaft.? I certainly got good compression. ???
There is something wrong/ just can figure out what it could be?
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
Obviously there is no fuel getting into the cylinder if the cloth did not get wet. Hoping you allow at least three cycles of the third cylinder for the wet test. Anyways, next move is to do the spray test. I already explained this previously. And if the problem persists, report your compression test numbers again by doing another compression test.
 

Nordin

Commander
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,428
Well next step is spray test as jiggz suggest.
Maybe the lower crankshaftseal is leaking, then the third cylinder is sucking air when the piston is going up (underpressure in the crankcase) in the cylinder. And when it is going down (overpressure in the crankcase) it leaks out of the crankcase.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Come to think of it: I had an engine where the bottom crank shaft seal blew out completely. If you can get a low pressure gauge then remove the lower fuel pump pulse hose and check that there is between 2 and 6 PSI crank case pressure, Check the hose for massive leaking. Also check the lower bypass cover to be certain the gasket is sealing
 
Top