force 50 ignition issues

[PW1967]

II was attempting to wire in a hot wire for a fish finder and had to pull my ignition switch out to gain access ( 1987 bass tracker with 50 horse force C model) well I pulled a couple wires loose pulling on it. and my safety lanyard wires had bad connections so i just disconnected it. I did not remember exactly how the wires went back but apparently I did something wrong. When I push in to choke it trips the breaker mounted in the engine, and I only have spark to one cylinder. My ignition switch is labeled with S I M B M A. I wired it up according to my repair manual but no luck.Ive been fighting this all week and just trying to find some new direction. thanks

this is the way I wired it
B red battery
I purple tach
S yellow ignition
A green choke
M blue
M white

I changed the blue to ignition and hooked ground to m post but have the same result

 

[PW1967]

OK, Im still fighting this issue, This is what Ive done so far, maybe some one will chime in with some infro.I removed and checked ignition switch and it tested good using procedure from my selok manual. It has no continuity between the two M post (kill wires) with ignition on, and has continuity with it off. I believe that's the way it should be. I removed flywheel and inspected stator and it looked good visualy, I tried to perform test according to outboardignition.com. but it seems you need a special
meter to read DC voltage output. I did check the blue and yellow wire on stator and got about 690 ohms. I found one melted ground wire from terminal block to engine housing and replaced, and also red hot wire that goes from terminal block to the breaker that looked like it had some excessive heat so I replaced that. I was wondering If not having my safety lanyard switch hooked up to ignition would cause no spark, I plan on hooking it up when I get a new one. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks

 

[Jiggz]

I'm not sure why you have terminal "A" when most switches have the C instead denoting choke. The terminal "I" is always confused with "Ignition" but with this switches, it's more of an "Accessory" where the tach, Overheat buzzer and other accessories (in this case you can also include your fish finder although there is a better way to do so as not to crowd this terminal or worse yet overload it) are attached. So when you turn the switch from off position (this action opens the two M contacts, hence no continuity) to the "I" position, accessory equipment are powered on. Hence, accessories do not drain the battery when not running the engine.

B - red (battery)
I - Purple (and other accessory wires like the Neon Blue for the overheat buzzer)
M(1) - White (there are two whites one for the kill switch the other for the CDM shut down wire)
M(2) - Blue (or blue/black) - there are two blue wires one for the kill switch the other for the CDM shut down wire
Note - the two M's are the shut down terminals. When in off position, both contacts will have continuity and open when in "I" position
S - Yellow (yel/red) Start position
A (I am assuming this is the equivalent of the "C" terminal) - Green wire (choke) you can test if this is the choke position by reading continuity between "B" and this terminal while pushing in. There should be continuity when pushed in and open when not.

The above wire designations are for engines prior to 1988. Since your motor is very close to this its possible you might have the "D" type wiring. The only difference with the "D" type is that one of the "M" terminals instead of being connected to another CDM shut down wire, it instead connects to a black wire to ground. And the CDM only has one shut down wire (black/yel or white) while the other shut down wire connects directly to ground.

As for connecting the fish finder directly to the "I" terminal. I recommend using a relay instead which feeds directly to the battery. In my case I installed an additional terminal board with 4 connections for accessories which is controlled by a relay connected to the "I" terminal. There are two advantages to this setup, it alleviates overcrowding at the "I" terminal and prevent overheating or overloading the terminal.

 

[Glastron_V210]

The 'DVA' device is just a really simple circuit to sample the peak of an ac waveform.

I made one in an hour the other day and it worked well.

This is the circuit:

http://forums.iboats.com/filedata/fetch?id=6975973

Just make sure the capacitor you get is rated to about 250VDC, otherwise it should be really easy to make one yourself, or have one made for cheap.

Also, the values in the circuit don't matter that much. I'm usign a 1uF cap and a 1Mohm resistor and it works fine. It just changes how long the reading stays on the meter for. the meter is set to DC volts and should be a digital meter (Can be a cheap one) for high input impedance.


Regarding your setup: Is it a prestolite cd ignition (No distributor)? I'm betting it is.

If so: Regarding spark:

1: Remove spark plugs and wrap a copper wire around them and then to ground so you can see them spark
2: Remove the white wire on the cd packs (kill wire) and tape them with a bit of electrical tape

Do you have a spark now?

If not, then you have a stator, trigger, coil or 'power pack' issue. If your powerpacks use plugs, try to change which coils are driven by which power packs to isolate the failure further and report back.

Btw, my engine is wired so that the white wire (kill wire) goes to the switch on the white wire , through the M contact which does close for key off, then back on the blue wire. the blue wire is grounded at the engine to the engine case which is grounded.

 

[PW1967]

Thanks for the reply. Yes the A terminal is for choke on that switch, when I tested it, it became hot when I pushed in to choke. But anyway I finally got fed up and took it to a local marine shop and he performed test, called me back and said my stator was fine and both my coil paks were fried. He said it could have happened when I had the wires wrong on the ignition switch, like having a kill wire on a hot ignition or battery terminal. He went on to say that that type of ignition. ( prestolite) and with those kind of power paks are hard to trouble shoot, even though he hasn't tested the trigger yet or the rectifier he was betting coil paks are shot. and quoted me 300.00 each to replace.

 

[Jiggz]

Well if it's in the hand of the mechanic . . . there's very little we can do anymore except to wait and pay when done. The CD/coil packs are available online from a low $200 to a high of $230. I'm quite sure the $300 quote includes labor but personally I still find that exorbitant.

 

[PW1967]

Do coil packs have part numbers on them, I've been searching site to find a set but haven't found any that match mine. They are the black ones with plug wire sealed inside. They look like a totally sealed unit. So far I've only paid for his diagnose, haven't gave the go ahead on repair, They are a pretty straight forward installation.

 

[Jiggz]

Go to CDI Electronics dot com. Or you can google part number "ignition packs 116-8475" which will show you photos and pricing for the ignition packs.

BTW, if you decide to do the repairs yourself. Before jumping on buying the packs double check the diagnosis to make sure the old ones are really bad. Again the best way to diagnose if these are really bad is to disconnect the shut down wires (white or brown) from the terminal board from inside the engine cowling. Tape them off make sure they are not shorting out or getting to ground. Test for sparks (get an inline spark tester, it costs less than $10 from any auto parts store) and if there are no sparks, double check the trigger wires and stator wires are still connected. Test for continuity and for resistance and if both are satisfactory and you still do not get any sparks, then maybe the old ones are fried and are not good anymore.

However, if you get sparks after the above procedures, then the CDM are still good.

 

[Glastron_V210]

It is possible of course that he is right.

How he would know that without testing the trigger, I have no idea.

Did he DVA them, or use an oscilloscope, or??

Anyway, the coil packs are always the LAST thing to assume, as they seem by all indications to be pretty robust. The kill wire routinely heats up to 200 volts, I doubt that 12V will damage it. But hey who knows.

Chay