water intrusion?

[jdiesl]

1st post ever in any forum. i guess im a super troll of some sort.
well of course my 1994 force 40hp wont start so i been doina little investigative work. i took the "house" approach and just started treating problems in order to diagnose. rebuilds include fuel line and bulb, fuel pump, and carb, all the cheap stuff. i take out the plugs and they are wet. clean but wet. smells like fuel so i clean them off and re install. ignition. nothing. check for spark. (I know dont do that) its small but its surface gap and what do i know. re install. ignition. wont fire up. i pull the plugs and they are wet. the bottom a little more than the top but both wet. smells like fuel.

i think im getting water in my combustion chamber and puttn the fire out. looking back it tried to fire up the first time i hit the starter this year. i checked the compression . its the same on both cylinders but a bit low i think at 105. so i think my head gasket is fine. at which point if not earlier im out of my depth. i think the exhaust gasket but idk. anyone

 

[gm280]

:welcome: jdiesl. Great to have you join us...

So after reading your comment, did you actually verify you had GOOD spark? Your compression isn't the problem. It is good enough to support combustion and allow the engine to run. So you have other issues. The fact that the plugs are wet and smell like gas leads me to think your problem is ignition with not producing a good quality spark. So I would certainly get a spark tester from your local auto parts store and see if you can get your spark to jump a 7/16" spark gap. And look a good blue in color as well. If you can't get that good of spark, then you need to look into what happened with your ignition system... Could be power pack, coils, points or whatever your engine uses to produce the spark. I think that is where your problem is... JMHO!

 

[jdiesl]

i ordered new plugs. which is to say "no i haven't verified spark quality" but i will. soon. thanks and good to be here.

 

[jdiesl]

got plugs in. no spark checker yet. update coming. txs

 

[jerryjerry05]

outboard ignition . com has test procedures for your motor.
For most all you need is an analog test meter.

Water??? You see water on the plugs?
There is NO way that your gonna drown the plugs.
They will fire under water.
There is no actual flame involved in the starting process.

Compression:105 The good thing is both have 105.
That tells me you didn't take the test right or the gauge is not reading right.

 

[jdiesl]

new plugs in. spark is weak on both cylinders. a little better on the bottom. jerry, "the plugs are wet" when i pull them out. i cant say there is water on the plugs. im thinking this is electrical in nature. ill see what i can find. thanks

 

[Nordin]

Sounds like a ignition issue, but also check the fuelpumpdiafragm.
If there is a hole in the diafragm it will suck fuel direct into the cylinder.

 

[jdiesl]

i recently rebuilt pump and tested it. its in working order. i haven't procured a spark checker yet and i think ill need a multimeter to continue with an accurate diagnosis. the parts start to get expensive from here in; stater, trigger$$. i haven't seen much regarding weak spark. its been a good or none as far as spark symptom description. what causes weak spark? bad ground? poor conection? bad stater? wtf?

 

[jerryjerry05]

No Title

IF??? You have spark?? Then your weak spark might be all it needs?
You need a spark checker.$6-7 at almost every auto parts store.
Get one and see what happens.
Is the battery good? A weak battery or starter? Not turning fast enough can be a problem.
After you charge it. Take the battery to Auto Zone. They can load test it.
Harbor Freight had load testers for sale $20-25
Get a Hygrometer too.That will save the trip to A.Z.
One dead cell can make the difference.
If the battery tests ok. Then check all the connections.
Take the starter apart. It's 20 and probably full of burnt brushes and crud.

 

[pnwboat]

Looks like you should have the Mercury style Switch Box ignition system. What color are the leads that come out from the stator under the flywheel?

Make sure the six magnets under the flywheel are intact and haven't come unglued or aren't broken.

 

[jdiesl]

i got a multimeter i suspect the stator so im gonna check it this eve after work. pnwboat, ill let you know asap. this unit is old but did more siting than running remarkably clean for its age but ill check. starter is strong, battery is strong as well is the extra bat. jerry, i got spark on both cyl. it dosent snap like it should and it looks white and fuzzy. not a well defined blue spark. thanks folks.

 

[pnwboat]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that your stator has two ignition windings. One for low speed and another for high speed. If the low speed winding is bad, it will not start. Low speed winding should read 3250 - 3650 Ohms. High speed winding should be 75 - 90 Ohms.

 

[jdiesl]

blue/blue&white 1178 and the red/red&white 94 so i think its bad dirty or both. for s and g i checked the resistance in the trigger? (purple/white) and got 824. i had my multimeter set on 20K the next lowest setting is 2000 and the next highest setting is 200K. it reads 1 before contacting electrodes. never used one before so im sorta wingn it. pnwboat,you may have nailed it. am i in the market for a stator? i guess i can rule out the wire connections since both tests were abnormal. thanks.

oh and when i disconnected the yellow wires to the rectifier to rule that out i discovered that they are not different in any way. i took a guess. so idk.

yea and spark checker is an endangered or threatened animal round here. 2 auto parts stores and a couple of mechs. did you know that i can order one online?:facepalm:

also, are these readings consistent with "weak Spark"?

 

[pnwboat]

I would suspect that the low speed winding is bad based on what you're reading with the OHM meter. Make sure the stator windings are disconnected from the harness when you read the resistance. 1178 Ohms on the low speed winding would mean that there is an internal short in the coil. That would decrease the voltage output of that stator winding.

 

[jdiesl]

i had all wires disconnected when i tested. except maybe the rectifier. Purple and white. i dont think that would effect my ohm reading though.
i got a spark checker and used it. it indicated that my spark was weak. but i think we had established that. according to the diagnostic range i have "a worn out ignition component." so im gonna pull the flywheel. sometime.

there are two different amperage outputs for stators. nine and 16.

 

[pnwboat]

If your regulator has numbers 5279 anywhere in the part number on the regulator itself, then it is compatitble with the 16 AMP stator

 

[jdiesl]

regulator = rectifier?

 

[pnwboat]

Yes, sometime in the early 1990's they started to use a rectifier with a built in regulator on the Force outboards. It's one unit. On the earlier motors there was just a rectifier without a regulator. The regulator circuitry help keeps the voltage going to the battery and all accessories to a maximun of about 14 volts.

 

[jdiesl]

ill check it soon. it turns out i dont have a strap wrench. i think i have bought more tools that parts. im still fuzzy on terminology. on the port side of the engine when mounted there are the wires coming from the stator, the trigger. below that there is a black power box mounted on a bracket just under that is a small ( in my case clear front with a solid whiteish background) box on the same bracket. this is what im calling the rectifier. same thing? regulator/rectifier one unit? if so, i didnt see any numbers on it but i wasnt looking for any. i feel like im getting close. thanks

 

[pnwboat]

You should have two yellow wires that come out from the stator. These are the battery charging wires. They connect directly to the rectifier/regulator which is one unit. The red wire from the rectifier/regulator is the 12 - 14 volts DC that goes to your battery.