Just bought a 65hp Chrysler, a no runner

[las]

Hi from Denmark

I just bought an old Chrysler 65hp outboard and need some advice on parts and troubleshooting.

The guy I bought it from said that he could only get it going on the lower cylinder and that the upper was dry. He opened up into the reed valves and said that they where not closing, flipped the reed plates but no luck. He cleaned the carbs but nothing helped.

From what I can read on the forum the ignition seems to be troublesome on these engines and I find information hard to come by.
It says Magnapower II on the side of the engine, but the flywheel says Prestolite?

First thing I'm going to do is check the compresssion, just have to find a battery! And if it checks out ok I'm going to order some rebuild sets for the carbs, new spark plugs, a new diaphragm for the fuel pump and some new reed valves.

I managed to turn the engine with the plugs out, powered by my charger, and under no load both plugs fired. But I wouldn't know if they do under load.

But any advice on further testing and Things I should do would be welcome, and where to buy parts?








Regards
Lars

 

[las]

Just did the compression check. 142 psi upper, 157 psi lower.

That should be ok, so now I think I will order the parts mentioned before if I can find a shop that carries parts for such old engines.

 

[Nordin]

That engine has the Prestolite ign.system and that is good. Not the MAG II that was working sometimes and not working good sometimes.
Do as you suggested first, change diaphram, rebuild the carbs and start from that.
I have two of these engines myself, one 55Hp 1977 with the "bad" MAG II ign.system and one 65Hp1977 also with the MAG II ign.
Flipping the reeds is not so good. Check them and change to good ones if some is bad or broken.

These engines has a good torque from the design of the powerhead BUT the 55 and 60Hp has the LU similar to the 35-55Hp earlier models and if you are to "rough" with the throttle you can strip the gears.
The 65Hp has a LU similar to the 3-4 cyl. engines and it is much better and will manage the torque better.

I am located i Sweden and buy all parts that I can not find here i Sweden from Franz Marine.
He is not cheapest BUT really service minded and he has all parts that are available and ship outside the US.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Since Prestolite made all the flywheels for Chrysler, the name on the flywheel is no indication of ignition type. However, as Nordin said, your ignition has been retro-fit to Prestolite ignition as evidenced by the CD box mounted on the side.

Never trust anything that the previous owners have said and re-do the fuel system and carbs. If necessary, replace defective reeds. Reeds are allowed to stand open at rest .010 and still be within specifications.

Most times, a spark plug that fires in air will also fire in the cylinder. HOWEVER, it is not unheard of to have plugs that refuse to fire under compression. It may well be worth the couple of bucks to change them. Champion L20v or NGK BUHW would be the best choices. You can also use UL18V or BUHX

However, I must disagree with Nordin on one point: I have personally stripped the gears out of three of your lower unit type. The gear teeth are small for the horsepower they are expected to handle.The engine produces so much torque that if under-propped (that is, too little pitch) and you do a hole shot, the gears will go away immediately. If you prop correctly and accelerate smoothly--not full throttle from a dead stop- then the lower unit will be OK.

 

[las]

Ok, Prestolite it is. I assume it is working or else I'll just have to deal with that later.

Nordin, where do you buy parts in Sweden?

And no, I don't trust anything that the previous owner said. Also I would really like to fix this motor up really good over time, I just love the way those old engines look and the fact that it's only 2 cyl makes it relative simple and low weight.

regardless, I wont hole shot it. It's an old engine and when sailing old boats and engines it's allways in the back of your head, my head at least, that it should be taken well care of. The best oil, flushing it after use, giving it lot of TLC....

Frank, what's the deal with these "bridgeless" plugs? Those this engine have vibration isues?

 

[Nordin]

las, I buy from a big OB partsdealer in Stockholm (Älvsjö) Marinshopen RM. They are good at Chrysler parts but your 65Hp is not so common such as other Chrysler engines. I Think they buy parts from US and manage all parts that are avaliable over there.
Franz Marine is outstanding in my opinion, but you have to pay for difficult parts. But he is really serviceminded.

The "bridgesless" plugs called Surface gap or Perma gap in Mercury language makes the engine work cooler and they are selfcleaning.
If you use regular plugs, you may melt the pistons. They are harder to ignite soo a regular magneto system can not do it, but they are great for CDI systems.
They are much more expencive but they last forever in my opinion. I have them in all my Chryslers with CDI ignition (about 10 engines), my 2 Mercury engines and 1 Force engine.

Frank, I think you have more experience about the gearcase BUT the cases used on the earlier 60Hp and 55Hp twincarb engines, who was similar to the 35-55Hp gearcases was "no heavyduty" for that torque the twincarb powerhead delivered.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Although I have seen them, I have not owned a 55-65 with the old gear cases. An old time dealer around here insists that the gears were the same as the 35 OMC and never rated for higher horsepower. In fact, the old Chrysler single carb 35-55 used these gears and did rather well, but they were never power-house engines, certainly not in the class of the twin carb 55-65 engines. So, let's say that no matter what gear case your twin carb 55-65 engine has it pays to be careful.

I have a 55 from 1967 that still has the original gears and I have a 50 on a 10 foot racer that also runs well with that gear case.

 

[las]

Yesterday I cleaned the carbs and resetting float level and drop. Inlet needle looked fine and I thought that might have done the trick. One carb was off in float height.

Then today i mounted the carbs and fuel line, primed the ball and had a go at it. But gasoline poured out of both carbs and the plugs got soaked, there were also a big mist coming out the back of the carbs! No need for a piece of paper held in the back of the carbs like the manual says, is was spraying out!
My first thought was I needed a rebuild set for both carbs, but why would the fuel overflow be so severe when the needles looked ok? Could it be a pump issue?

Then the starter died on me, so now I'm done testing for now.......

But it looks like I need new reeds, starter and possible two rebuild sets for the carbs.

 

[las]

Would the sierra 18-7037 be the right kit for my engine?

 

[Nordin]

I am not sure, but I think 18-7033 is for your carbs. I fits to the 60Hp 1974-75 modelnumber 608/609HA and they are the same engines as yours but with the smaller gearcase.

I would suggest you to take a look at the reeds if the engine spits fuel back through the carbthroats.
But first check the carbs again, Clean them and reset the floatlevels.
When you turn the carb upsidedown the level of the float should be parallel to the casting.
Check by blowing throug the inlet that the needle is sealing, invert the carb and check that the needle opens.

 

[las]

Thanks, that's what I figured too. They are ordered from ebay USA.

I found a starter in UK that looked identical, I hope it fits, it's this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/380327388830?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Also the 4 finger reeds are ordered, the 1 finger I can't seem to find.

I didn't check them by blowing trough them, but there must be a problem with the seats not closing or leaking floats, but I hope not.

 

[Frank Acampora]

If the carbs have the rubber seats, then the rubber disc may be worn. A quick fix is to remove the brass seat and turn the rubber insert around. The two sides are different but it will not greatly affect operation. Be certain that the copper gasket is below the brass seat when you re-install it. This is very much like the seal on banjo fittings for brake lines. Without that copper gasket the whole seat assembly will leak.. Most times the copper gasket will not fall out when you remove the brass seat. It will stay inside the casting.

 

[las]

Sorry for bringing this old post back to life, but I haven't finished the project yet and have made some progress the last few days.
ItI took me forever to get the 1 finger reed plates. But I've got them and have assembled the motor now.
Looking through the reed block I could clearly see light and discovered that some of the reeds where a little bend from new! But I went ahead and installed it and it has stopped spitting back through the carbs.

Still a lot to do. but cleaned and reworked the carbs, set the floats and they still leak! No spit back.

Got the engine running today with lots of timing advance and no fuel line connected basically letting it run dry. But I got to know whether or not the engine could be made to work.

But gas was pouring out everywhere and it smoked like a wet grass fire fuel consumption was off the chart, sucking a healthy 1 liter a 10 sec........ I would simply not have enough gas to make out the harbor at that rate haha.....

Well tomorrow I will pull the pump and see if that's the culprit.

 

[jbcurt00]

IAS, this is your topic and you can revive it anytime you wish. Even nearly 2yrs later. Welcome back.

Good luck w figuring out the fuel problem, sorry to say, Frank A, one of our resident Chrysler expert is no longer w us. :rip:

He is greatly missed.

 

[las]

Frank A no longer here?
That is really a sad thing to hear. ​What happened?

 

[jbcurt00]

Details here
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...garding-valuable-iboats-member-frank-acampora

 

[Nordin]

Yes Frank is not with us anymore. Really, really sad and he had tones of experience from Chrysler-Force engines.

Ias I will try to help you through with your 65Hp.

Pull the fuel pumpdiaphragm and I am 100% sure you have the problem there.
The diaphragm is ripped for sure as you discribe about the fuel consumbtion.

I have had the same issue with one of my 30Hp Chrysler.

 

[las]

Thanks for the help Nordin.
​It was the diaphragm! It was hard like plastic with a big tear in it.
I had all the parts for the pump lying around so that's good now.

I then adjusted the carb linkage and carbs for wot and adjusted the ignition timing with plugs out and grounded.
Advanced the throttle to full, gear engaged and adjusted the timing to line up with the 32btdc with the timing light.

At idle timing was around 0! I tinkered around with it a bit but not really much you can do. I would have preferred it to be a bit higher at idle.
Well it was actually a few degrees ATDC but I adjusted the idle adjuster to give a bit more advance and then realigned the roller on the carb as best I could.

Then came time to fire it up... Choke on and bang she fired right up at to high rpm! Scared the hell out of me and I had to kill it by drowning it blocking the carbs with my hands. I was not ready for it to start that easy, and not at higher rpm's.....
After being puzzled by the high rpm's a few attempts I discovered I had not backed the throttle all the way back.... Stupid mistake.
Zero throttle and she started just nice and easy, nice.
Checked the timing without carb linkage, running at idle, and at full advance 32btdc lined up perfect with the mark on reed adapter. back to zero throttle and the tdc lined up with the mark on the reed adapter. Adjusted the idle circuit and left it to cool.

So I can now conclude that this was the finishing of part one... Many more parts to address and it still has to be tested in the water

I'll be back.

 

[Nordin]

Nice to hear that she fires up easy.

BTW You allways set the timing on an OB at WOT. No timing at idle. It will be as is. About zero or 1-2 dgr.

Adjust the air/fuel mixture about 1 1/4 turn out from lightly seated and then the idle screw to 7-800rpm in gear and in water.

Maybe you can retard the timing at WOT to 30 dgr. You have to test, the engine will "feel better" with the timing retarded a bit.
The fuel in those days was much better for the engine.
If you retard the timing you have to readjust the idle too.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Read the first few posts in this section.
Covers some of the problems found on your motor.

The timing usually never needs to be adjusted.
Once set it should stay that way.
The extra fingers on peoples hands usually undo the work someone has done right before