carb and tuning 115hp 1978

comet424

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is the video its idling and ya doesn't really charge 13 volts at 800 or 1000 rpms 12.85 it came up to

but there is that kinda knocking and the water leak you see

http://youtu.be/lgaRNMeiq4M


and what should the idling RPMS be in neutral in water? so far its idling at 600 rpms is that too high
 
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Frank Acampora

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The alternsator usually cut in at around 1000 RPM so you will show very little charging when idling to the dock. Once you get above idle, you should see positive voltage from the regulator/rectifier. In Forward gear, in the water. idle speed should be 700-750 RPM. There is no specification for idle in neutral but as most members on the forum will tell you, (depending upon prop pitch) It USUALLY is around 1200 RPM

As far as confusion about timing marks, the difference between the two marks is close to 2 degrees. that is between 32 and 30. At 30 degrees and even as low as 28 degrees there will be no appreciable difference in engine performance. However, the mark closes to the center between the 3 and 2 is the correct mark.

Now, as far as water weeping from the exhaust cover bolt: As long as it is not getting into the cylinder, it will do no harm, other than rusting the bolt. It is always better to replace the gasket---except-- in this case, with an engine that old, you are going to snap at least a couple of bolts. Then you have the nasty job of drilling and re-tapping. Better to wait until you need to rebuild the engine. If you have removed the exhaust cover last time you rebuilt the engine, then by all means replace the gaskets and replace the bolts with stainless and anti-seize. While new gaskets are supposed to be self sealing, a little Permatex on both sides will not hurt anything. That is, if you can find new gaskets. Contact franzmarine@aol.com for parts.
 

comet424

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ok so did I put the marks at the right spot then? so then at the 32 mark that other mark is the 30 mark, and what marks are the 3 and 2 ?? and wow idle at 1200 rpms is that a little high? so then everything is ok so I basically need to get it in the water to test it

well I just finished re building this engine I split the engine because I couldn't get the lower crank seal out. so I bought the entire gasket kit set , but it doesn't come with headgasket. and I have no idea if water is getting into the cylinders how can I tell?? I haven't removed this exhaust side, and can you tell me if that knocking sound is normal in the video?? by the exhaust side plate . ok ya ill have to see about new bolts then I haven't tried removing it, so is that the gasket is leaking?

and in the video is the engine running ok? that's in neutral running at 600 rpms


and ok ya I use Copper hi tack stuff to coat both sides of the gaskets and the metal to bond them,

plus I traced my gaskets if it ever had to split the engine again so I had backup of gaskets 190 dollars for the gasket set
 

comet424

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ok so I took the side off don't have any stainless bolts but I can get them tomorrow here are pics of the inside is it looking good?

and is the knocking sound just how its supposed to sound I didn't see valves so I guess with 2 stroke no valves just those holes I guess the intake has holes lower so air and fuel go in one side and out this side

so then its easy to flood like I was having troubles too. how is it that the right fuel amount even gets into the all the cylinders correctly ?
 

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comet424

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so is everything looking ok?

and no bolts broke off luckly just rusted and sealant on them
 

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Frank Acampora

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Don't use anything with copper. Copper and graphite are the two worst compounds to use as they set up a galvanic reaction with the engine aluminum, increasing corrosion. Nickel compounds and nickel based anti-seize are better. You can also coat the screws and bolts with silicone RTV instead of anti-seize. I have seen it used on water pump bolts and it seems to work well.

Your engine appears typical and the stainless plate always warps from heat.

Exhaust ports are always higher on the cylinder wall than bypass ports. That way as the piston moves down under pressure of burning gases, the exhaust ports open first, relieving pressure. Then, the bypass ports open and a fresh charge of air and fuel under about 2 PSI pressure enters the cylinder and sweeps out remaining exhaust gases..

Two cycle engines work differently than four cycle. The back side of the piston is used to first suck a fresh charge into the crankcase, then as the piston moves down, it pressurizes this charge to move it into the cylinder.

And yes, anytime you have a single carb feeding more than one cylinder, there will be uneven charge distribution. In fact, on your four cylinder engine two cylinders (I forget, but I think it is #2 and #4) run leaner than their mates. That is why we set the carbs very slightly richer.
 

comet424

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well this is the stuff I used for the gaskets that comes out copper colored
http://www.beltco.com.my/catalog/permatex-copper-spray-101ma

so that's wrong for this engine?

and I have also thread sealant with PTE whatever PTE is

and how tight you tighen these bolts from the pile of bolts pic would I re use these or just get stainless?

and I only have the gray anti seze

so a 2 stroke lawn mower engine or so doesn't use reeds how does it work, neither does a snow mobile engine, so why do outboards have tehse reeds but other engines don't??

and which carb do you set a bit leaner the top or bottom?

and is that knocking sound normal??? what is that knocking sound here I though it was valves but I see no valves. Is it because its running to lean or something
 
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comet424

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so hope your not saying I have to peal off the gaskets and re spray it with a non copper gasket sealant
 

Frank Acampora

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Well, since the gaskets are already stuck on, just let them be. The rusted bolts really should be replaced. either buy new steel ones and protect them from rust with silicone or buy stainless. Stainless and aluminum do set up a greater galvanic reaction than steel and aluminum but I prefer them. I use plenty of grey anti-seize on them to hopefully isolate them from the aluminum. Grey is a nickel based anti-seize. Tighten these 1/4-20 bolts to 70 INCH pounds.

NOW for the technical part. There are MANY variations of two cycle engines. Some use the piston skirt to open and close a third port, eliminating reeds. Some use a timed, ported crankshaft to eliminate reeds. And some use a disc valve at the back of the crankcase, driven by the elongated crankpin. This is suitable mainly for single cylinder engines. Both the disc valve and ported crankshaft are much more precise than reeds and for a given displacement engine will produce more power.

Lastly. old General Motors buses used a GMC two cycle V8 diesel engine. It had regular overhead valves in the head for exhaust and ports at the bottom of the cylinders. The infamous GMC 6-71 Blower which almost every top fuel dragster had as standard equipment in the 1960s and 70s was mounted on top and pressurized the valley between cylinders. I don't remember the exact cycle, but when the piston cleared the ports, pressurized air scavenged residual exhaust and overfilled the cylinder. They did make various sizes of blower---2-71, 4-71, 6-71.

Why do outboards have reeds? Why is the sky blue? Actually, just like auto makers, outboard manufacturers are sluggish with change and the first PRACTICAL outboards had reed valves because they were simple to manufacture and a bit more efficient than third ports uncovered by the piston skirt. There was one old time engine, I think it was caller the Oliver, that used a ported crankshaft and single carb to feed two small cylinders.
 

comet424

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ok so is that blue can that doesn't say coper spray a gasket to be used then ill get that can then,

as for stainless steel bolts I didn't think stainless would cause aluminum to corrode,


and I have Thread sealant with PTE what is the PTE is that good to use??

and as for the carb to set one more rich which carb would I do that top or bottom? I set them both to 1 full turn

and that knocking sound I mentioned in the video I posted is that normal??


so my 2 cycle snowmobile Yamaha snow jet 1972 engine is that a 3rd port since it doesn't use a a reed then


and is that copper gasket sealant spray going to make the block corrode.

thanks for all the info and help I really appreciate it

I just need to test it in river soon but since my trailer is aluminum I need someone to go with my trailer floats on water


oh and what are these by pass ports for I didn't change the gaskets in them nothing leaking out of them
 

Frank Acampora

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It is thread sealer with PTFE---TEFLON. It is excellent to use but usually more expensive. You set both top and bottom carbs to the same low speed needle setting. Remember, it is #2 and #4 that run a little leaner than #1 and #3. Your engine is numbered 1,2,3,4 from top to bottom and firing order is 1,3,2,4.

As for your Yammy, I never tore one apart so I can not comment on what type induction system it has. On the side of the engine ar four trapezoid shaped bypass port covers. They seal the block and direct fresh charge through the bypass ports in the cylinder wall. If the gaskets are not leaking there is no need to change them.

Sorry, but I could not hear the knocking you described. The engine sounded normal to me but, I don't hear so well. Maybe someone else will hear it and comment.
 
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comet424

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oh ok and 2 and 4 run leaner cuz of how it sprays? so then what do you do to run them no leaner just increase each carb low idle set screw so far they both set to 1 full turn


ok so I can use the thread sealant then instead of anti seize or both

and fair enough ya I don't know much about the snow mobile engine its like my echo weed wacker I know just has a regular carb and u mix the gas


and ill re take another video and be close to the engine on the exaust side maybe can hear it better but ill have to wait till I get the new bolts

least its running cleaner then when I got it


and as for the prop is it ok to put some blue lock tight on as I don't know if the threading will go into the nylon
althought might remove the SS washer just to give it a bit more thread
 

comet424

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and I basically new to outboards and boats general as my father used to build boat trailers that im looking for EZ Trail and HD Trailers I wanna duplicate

but with listening to engines I have no idea

and running in a box you sure see the the oil slick I amazed we are even allowed to run 2 strokes anymore that they need to be 4 so there be no oil in the water
 

comet424

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oh and I cant get 1 1/8" long bolts the bolt place only can get 1 1/4" is that ok or too long to go in they can only get 1" or 1 1/4"
 

comet424

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brafasco neither, only 1" or 1 1/4" and it seems 1 1/4" be too long when I threaded the 1 1/8" without the cover
very frustrating looks like re use old bolts?
 

MickLovin

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Set your carbies at 1 1/4 turns, that is usually what they run at. You need to have a tacho and in forward you need to set it at around 750 rpm, in neutral it will run about 1000 - 1100 rpm.
 

Frank Acampora

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If it is the exhaust cover that you can't find bolts for, you can drill deeper and tap 1/4 X 20 deeper. The 1 1/4 bolts will then fit. OR use a regular washer and lock washer under each head. OR Grind some length off each bolt. Yep--factory used bastard length 1 1/8 long bolts. They could buy a million of them special order. We can't find them.

The two cylinders do run slightly leaner because of the geometry of the intake and reeds. SO, we don't set the low speed mixture screw for the best idle as this will be too lean on a couple of cylinders at full throttle. We set the low speed mixture needles at about 1 to 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated.
 

comet424

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oh ok ill get some the 1 1/4" ones then go figure eh
and ill re set them to 1 1/4 turns out then but why you want idle so high 1100-1200 in neutral running in water? why not like what its idling right now around 600
is that bad or is that just for charging purposes etc??

Ill get some bolts today
 
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