89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Eddie Rivera

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Hello and thanks to everyone who helped me change my exhaust gaskets and carb, after several months its finally done.
I have a problem --- it has a hard time starting. My model of outboard is 507X9B and i changed all my fuel lines out and in and on the carb i changed the 2 small gaskets that go on the screw holding the bowl and inside the bowl as well as the round bowl gasket, i checked the needle and its not horrible "HOWEVER" i adjusted the float, upside down with my measuring tape it measures 3/16 form carb body to top of float and as it opens and hangs it measures now 5/16 ( it was 8/16 as i found it). i never had such a hard time starting it. i got a brand new gallon of fresh premium gas and mixed super well with 3 ounces of oil for a 50:1 mix. - when i was putting the power head back into the plate and onto the cowling i did add some seafoam (not the spray) to the opening underneath the head where i think the piston is. So can anyone tell me what ive done wrong now??????
 

pnwboat

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

What exactly do you meant by "Hard time starting"? Does the engine spin but just doesn't fire? Does it back fire? Is the starter spinning the motor fast enough or is it turning slower than normal?

Have you checked the spark plugs to see if they are fouled. If they look all black, clean them off with some carb cleaner and try it again.

As far as the float adjustment, I don't know about the measurements but the top of the float should be parallel to the carburetor casting. See diagram below. From your measurements it sounds like you only have two 16ths of an inch for drop. I don't know what it should be, but that seems kind of small. I would think it should be more than that. I would double check your information on the float drop.

IMG_2765.JPG

Kind of hard to picture where exactly you added Seafoam? "when i was putting the power head back into the plate and onto the cowling i did add some seafoam (not the spray) to the opening underneath the head where i think the piston is
Are you talking about the spark plug hole?
 
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Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Hello and thank you for responding! First I think I over flooded the carb. I used the priming bulb till gas came out of the carb. Cuz I had changed all the hoses and knew there was no fuel in the lines. The motor cranks and eventually started. Then I turned it off and it would not start again. After cranking for a while it did again. I let it sit for hours and right now it started at the first hit of the key but after about 3 to 4 minutes it turned off by itself and it is not turning on anymore. So not sure if the float adjustment got messed up with my messing with it.
I added the seafoam into the opening underneath the head I believe is the X sauce opening and I believe it is the piston were right I did it because I moved the crankcase and the piston seem to move up and down and that is where I added some seafoam. Please advice
 

MickLovin

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

I would say you have done your floats in correctly if it is leaking when you prime it. Does the primer get hard, if it does it means your carbie needle is seating properly and closing off the fuel to the carbie, if it doesn't or it is leaking before it does, I would say the float is set wrong.
I have tried to set my floats up with the carbies one before and it doesn't work, for the extra 1/2 hour it takes to take them off, you are better off. I wouldn't imagine the seafoam has caused you a problem, it should go out of the system after a short while.
Just check your needle isn't sticking as well, probably do a carb clean while your at it
 

pnwboat

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

If there is gas coming out of the carburetor as you squeeze the primer bulb, then the float level is not set correctly and is not shutting off the flow of gas into the carburetor and it is flooding the motor. You need to get the float level set correctly. If the float level is set correctly, and the needle valve is good and not damaged, the primer bulb should get very firm after 4 or 5 squeezes. No gas should be coming out of the carburetor.

The area that you poured the Seafoam into sounds like the exhaust tube. Shouldn't hurt anything.
 
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MickLovin

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

What he said :cool:, all in all take them off and set them.
 

Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Thank you guys! I've been testing different things but you guys hit the nail on the head, I prime the bulb but it DOES NOT get hard ad fuel leaks out if the carb. I did clean the carb. I cleaned both the needle and the idle screw and sprayed it clean with brake cleaner. I was goin to attemp to adjust the float without taking it out but I will do it the right way the first time - I'm on it now and will post the results. Any additional advice is welcome!!!!
 

Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

carb float 1.jpgcarb float 1.jpgcarb float 2.jpgcarb float 3.jpg
 

jerryjerry05

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

The pics look right.
Hook up a hose and try blowing through the needle/seat as it's upside down.
If any air gets through the needle might be damaged?
Take it apart and inspect the needle for grooves or scratches.
Some seats have a o-ring in them and the ethanol rots it and it goes away causing leaks.
The needle some are solid metal,some come with a rubber tip.
Inspect the parts well.
That float:does it have a leak?Any fuel inside?
You are using the choke when you try to start?(had to ask)
Do a compression/spark test. Just to make sure there aren't any other problems.
 

pnwboat

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Looks like you're on the right track. Test it for leaks like Jerry says, then the real test will be when you hook it up and use the primer bulb. Hopefully no gas will leak out.
 

Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Ok guys thanks so much, these pictures are the end result - I should have taken a before and after to show the difference. I do use the choke when I start it and seems to flood it more. I blow air into it and the needle does block it when it's upside down, before I adjusted the float I used to be able to prime the bulb and it would get super hard and would not leak fuel like today. When I first got the boat a year ago the compression test gave me 35 lbs exactly on both spark plug holes. I'm off work on a back injury so I will go clean the spark plugs and install it and try it out now. Any final advice is welcomed!! Thanks guys !!!
 

Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Another question, if it starts fine and runs fine, I did clean out the complete carb and changed all hoses to new ones - SHOULD I RUN THE MOTOR WITH SEA FOAM IN A GALLON OF FUEL ANYWAY????
 

pnwboat

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

I wouldn't bother with the Seafoam at this point. When you say you checked compression and got 35 IBS....didn't you mean 135 LBS?

One thing I would do if you haven't done it already is to install an inline fuel filter between the fuel pump and carburetor.

When you use the choke, use it sparingly. It's easy to flood the motor with too much choke.
 

Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Compression test showed 35 lbs (thirty five) on both chambers. Everyone said sounds low but as long as both show the same reading. My tester is a cheap one from harbor freight FYI - last night I bought a universal fuel filter- due to finding a small metal peace sitting in the bowl and some dirt, seems a bit large to go inside though I have seen videos of others similar to mine inside the compartment but I thought I would install it in the hose coming out if the gas tank, next to the gas tank as to sit in a vertical manner rather than horizontal and risk air going in, is that to do????? Please advice as I am about to install it.
 

pnwboat

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

I think I would try a different compression tester. 35LBS is very very low and would indicate that there is a problem with the pistons, rings or cylinders. Maybe a blown head gasket. Normal compression range for a 1989 50HP is 135 - 150 lbs.

You can install the filter in the manner that you describe. Make sure you have easy access to replace it periodically. I want to mention again, that to be 100% safe, you also need one between the fuel pump and carburetor. Nothing fancy, but something to prevent small bits of hose, or even pieces of the rubber fuel pump diaphragm that have broken down due to the ethanol in the gas these days from entering the carburetor.
 
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Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

I'm so scared to think about the pistons, rings, cylinders or head gasket being bad. But after removing the power head to change the exhaust gaskets I feel comfortable to tackle it my self.
1) If that is the case what would be the symptoms of the motor in and out if the water (besides the compression test)?
What you said about the fuel filter makes perfect sense. I shall install two.
2) does it matter if the fuel filter lays horizontally??
 

pnwboat

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

If the motor starts and runs fine, good speed on the water mounted on your boat, then I would suspect that the compression gauge is off. Symptoms of low compression are hard to start, no power while underway.

If it's just a standard in-line fuel filter and not a water separater, it doesn't matter, horizontal, or vertical. The fuel will get sucked out of the tank and pushed towards the carburetor regardless of the position of the filter.
 

Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Ok I installed everything back on - including the inline fuel filter. It won't start. It's still leaking out fuel. I guess I should take carb out again and on the upside down adjustment try to close it up a bit more - am I right????
 

pnwboat

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

Yes that would be the next easiest step. Adjust the float so that it is just a tad further away from the carb body than it is now when upside down. Double check that you don't have any debris stuck between the end of the needle valve and the seat.

If that doesn't fix it, take a very close look at the end of the needle valve and see if you can see any imperfections. If so, then you may need to replace it.
 
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Eddie Rivera

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Re: 89 force 50 hp hard to start after exhaust gasket change and carb gaskets

wow wow wow - i found out what the peace of metal in the bowl is = i broke a little peace off the little center flap between where the float holding pin goes that actually stops the float. i stupidly adjusted it by pushing on the float while it was set up and against that little center flap. The float can still be held cuz its not all gone. i am taking pictures of the little broken peace and taking pictures of the needle tip it self.
I have a question = I understand that when the float is upside down the float is supposed to be flat and parallel to the carb body and i guess that how the needle closes and prevents fuel to leak out but when the carb is in the normal position it hangs down and your saying it should be just a tad away from touching the main nozzlem SO WHAT DOES THAT ADJUSTMENT DO??????
 
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