35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

[ssmith386]

I have a 35 horse Force model 357f7b serial 1918, its a 1987 model. It recently quit spitting water so I decided I would change the impeller myself after watching a few online videos. I CANNOT seem to get lower unit off. I have removed the 4 bolts that hold the lower unit to the piece above it and it drops 1/2 inch or so. I read online that you need to disconnect the shaft and on most outboards it appears easy to get to but not so with mine. I removed the exhaust port cover to get a little better access but I can not get to the shaft. I have removed anything and everything I can to try and get the lower unit off. I don't know what I'm missing and I can't find anything about the 357f7b online. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Boatdoc58]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Did you remove the cotter pin and then the gear shift pin ?

 

[Boatdoc58]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

not familiar with your particular motor, but the upper and lower gear shift rods usually need to be disconnected in order to drop the lower unit. By dropping it slightly, you should be able to see the stainless rod. Raise or lower it with the gearshift lever until you see the bolt or screw to connect the two rods. Take out the screw being careful not to lose it (dropping it into the lower unit is not preferred, but not a disaster). When the upper and lower rods are disconnected, the lower unit should drop the rest of the way. You should have a piece of wood under the skeg to protect it when the lower unit drops.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

I do sometimes get confused on years but if your engine has a two piece shroud at the transom clamps, you need to remove the six bolts holding it together and remove the right side to access the shift coupler.

 

[Boatdoc58]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Those images I posted above are from the factory service manual for that serial/model number. You do have to remove the shroud to access the shift rod coupler.

 

[Boatdoc58]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Those images I posted above are from the factory service manual for that serial/model number. You do not have to remove the shroud to access the shift rod coupler. It should be in view on the right side.

 

[ssmith386]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Thanks everyone for the tips. Yes I pulled the cotter pin and all that and it didn't seem to help. Thanks for the pics boatdoc, I have been trying access that coupler but unable to get in there to it but it appears from the pictures that I need to turn the motor to gain access. Ill try that when the rain stops.

 

[ssmith386]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

I am literally at my wits end with this piece of junk. I have tried everything!!! I've disconnected nearly everything on the motor to no avail. I THOUGHT that picture that was posted would help but nope. I cant get the "back plate" off or out of the way enough, I was able to get my fingers in just enough to spin the nut a couple times but then I froze and won't go either way and I can get a wrench in there. I think I'm ready to quit and just let someone come get it. I cant fix it and I cant afford to pay anyone to fix it. AHHHHHHHH

 

[ssmith386]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Ok, after a short break and a cold beverage I went out there again. I ended up cutting part of the back plate out so I could access the turnbuckle (I know probably not the best idea) Now that I can access the turnbuckle I can get a wrench in there and turn the turnbuckle but when I do I just see more threads exposed and it seems like it is putting a bind on the shift rod. I think maybe I need to disconnect the shift rod at the linkage at the top of the motor??? Then loosen turnbuckle and drop lower unit??

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

winging it here, but the lower unit dropped slightly, right? Is it still in that position? That is, dropping the lower unit would pull the shift rod down. As it's screwed into the shift cam in the gearcase, it will continue to put downward pressure on the rod after the cam is pulled up. I think you may need to turn the prop or flywheel a little while raising the cam because you are shifting into gear. By using the shift lever at the engine, you can also push the rod down (or pull it up). I'm thinking one of those adjustments will allow you to unscrew the link -- but winging it because I haven't worked on that motor, and don't have a manual or complete parts blow up in front of me. Hopefully, this is some rational "winging".

btw: Don't bind or bend the shaft, as you will have a devil of a time getting it to shift right if the shaft has any kind of bend in it. The tolerance is very close.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Well, you are doing it the hard way but---

The shift rod coupler has a lock nut on top of it. The two rods are threaded opposite each other so when you turn the coupler one way they both come out and when you turn it the other way they both enter the coupler. I think the coupler is 7/16 inch. You loosen the lock nut and turn the coupler with an open end wrench. It is difficult and slow because there is not a lot of room for the wrench head. Typically there is about 3/8 to 1/2 inch of threads inside the coupler.

Where are you located?

 

[ssmith386]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

What is he easier way Frank? I have tried everything I know and this coupler is all I can find. I plan to disconnect the linkage up top (where it connects to the linkage) tomorrow to see if that helps. I have seen and read of easier ways for different motors but mine seems to be the odd ball with little or no info available. I am located in South Georgia about 30 mins north of Jacksonville.

 

[Nordin]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

I think the shiftrod is stuck in the angelcoupler and/or the drivshaft is stuck in the crankshaft.
If you have unscrewed the four nuts/bolts holding the gearcase to the midleg then it should go down about 1 in when the gearcase is push into forward (shiftrod pushed downwards). Then remove the cotterpin.
Try to use penetraiting oil/rustremoving oil to the shiftcoupler and also heat it The angeled shiftcoupler is made of alu and it will stuck with stainless steel when engine is used in saltwater.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

After writing the reply, I went to bed and was thinking: If your 35 is the one based on the old Chrysler 20-25, then yes, It is a MISERABLE job to get the cover off and access the shift rod coupler. Unfortunately, we received a LOT of snow here the past weeks and my smaller engine parts are buried so I can not go out and see exactly what needs to be done.

As Nordin described: IF the lower shift rod does have a 90 degree coupler at the lower unit, then reach in and remove the cotter pin and the flat head pin that looks like a short ten penny nail. Then, you should be able to drop the lower unit.

 

[ssmith386]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Ok, heres where Im at now. The shift rod is still through the linkage up top on the right side of the motor. Loosening the coupler on the stbd side o the leg didn't seem to help. Finally I was able to get the lower unit low enough I could squeeze a screw driver in to push the cotter pin out. Then I was able to push the flat head pin out, keep in mind the lower unit has dropped only enough to squeeze a screw driver through. Now that Ive got the shift rod disconnected from the lower unit, there shouldn't be anything else to hold it right? It seems to be stuck in place now. What else is there to do? Also, since I had trouble getting it to drop down low enough, how in the world am I going to get the pins back through? This has got to be the worst force motor to work on ever!

 

[ssmith386]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Heres another update. After shaking and pulling for quite some time I finally separated the lower unit from the motor. I am a little confused now. The shaft stayed in the motor, so the only thing sticking up from the lower unit is the water tube. And, after pulling the impeller housing the impeller really doesn't look bad. Also, on the side of the shaft there is an elbow shaped pin that slides into the shaft, is that the "key" for holding the impeller on the shaft? I really don't know what the problem is now because like I said the impeller doesn't look that bad, and I have no idea how I will get the impeller lined up correctly on the shaft, and I see no way to reattach the shift rod with little to no clearance. Anyone interested in buying a motor???

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

The elbow shaped pin is really a straight pin. When you forced the lower unit down the pin bent. You now need to check to see if the seal on top of the water pump was damaged by the pin being pulled through it.

The drive shaft is most likely rusted into the crankshaft. You need to get some penetrant up there. Usually, I turn the engine upside-down but that involves demounting it from the transom.

After using penetrating oil, wiggle the drive shaft in all directions in an effort to loosen it. Find a split collar the size of the shaft and clamp it on. Then use some sort of tool and a hammer to try to hammer the shaft out.

After you get the shaft out, clean the splines and lightly grease them with a good quality grease or anti-seize compound

 

[ssmith386]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

Im beginning to wonder if this is worth it!

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp Force 357f7b Impeller/ lower unit problems

won't find this in the manual, but I've used a vise-grip and piece of rubber gasket material clamped to the stuck shaft, and hammered downward on that (holding the vise grip with leather work gloves). Wrap some heavy leather around the rubber material (one of those gloves, maybe), attach the grips and start "working" it. If you have some rubber gloves, try gripping it and pulling down by hand first. I know. Shade tree stuff.

(Ah, don't give up yet.)