New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

glennkil

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Jan 2, 2006
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Gday from down under. I have just purchased a 15 foot fibreglass boat with a 50 HP Force outboard on with model number 507F8D. It has tilt and trim fitted and there is a significant oil leak out the trim cylinder cap which I have identified as a worn seal in the cap due to a mark on the piston shaft. Finding that was the easy part.

According to what I can find on the web that model never came out with tilt and trim but its certainly there and working except for the engine bleeding down when lifted.

First question: Does anyone know how I can verify the model of the tilt and trim assembly, only marks are 54445 stamped into it.

Second question: Will the leak in the trim cylinder cause the tilt cylinder piston to bleed down or is this a valve body issue?

Third question: likelihood of finding cap seals and a replacement piston? I'm betting zero chance on the piston, what about machining and sleeving the original shaft?

The boat is in great condition and I'd hoped to be able to use it over Xmas with my kids who are very excited but it looks very unlikely now.

Any advice greatly received and merry Xmas to all
 

glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Ok I have found the tilt and trim unit attached to my Force 50 from another thread where a user wanted to add Tilt and Trim. Here it is in the photo. I need a new trim piston and seals. Any ideas greatly appreciated.
 

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glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

What if I were to remove the piston and tap the cap for a brass plug dispensing with the trim function? Would I have sufficient control over engine angles just using the tilt piston? Would this work? There would be a continuous flow of fluid through the trim cylinder or would I need to remove the lines and plug the holes in the pump body for the trim function? Desperate to find a solution for this.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

104_7500.jpg104_7501.jpg

Temporarily, until you can fix the tilt/trim, use a couple of bolts through the tilt holes in the transom clamps. Put them in whichever holes are about the correct engine tilt. You can not pass a 7/16 (11MM) bar through because the trim cylinder is in the way. BUT a couple of long bolts with couplers instead of nuts will support the engine for running. Bolt heads outside, couplers inside the transom clamps. If you can't find 7/16, 3/8 inch or 10MM will do
 
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glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Thank you Frank. Assume I"d do this somehow at the ramp as bolting the engine down while transporting it will severely restrict clearance?

I took my boat to a repair place last Friday and he said no hope of finding parts without even looking at the problem. I don't give up so easy.
 

pnwboat

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Looks like the power trim from a 1989 Force 60 HP motor matches what you've got. Naturally, all the parts you are looking for are no longer available.

Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. - POWER TRIM - FORCE 60 H.P.

I did see a complete used trim cylinder w/4 bolt cover on E-Bay about a week ago, but I don't see it anymore.
 
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glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Thank you so much for assisting. Force never really made it here as a brand name and second hand spares in country will be rare as hens teeth.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Yeah, It only takes about 2 minutes so do it when you need to. These bolts will not hold the engine down, for example in reverse, so if operated in reverse, you must use low power otherwise the engine will jump out of the water. They are strictly to keep the engine from trimming too far in and causing the boat to "plow."

The seal is a rubber O ring and if you can polish the ram, you can fit in another ring. Since the leak is at the top of the trim cylinder ( to trim the engine in or down) it should not cause a bleed-down. Thus you probably have an internal check valve with a bad O ring too. This check valve will be in the body of the pump. Bleed down when tilted past running position can also be due to a bad O ring seal on the tilt cylinder piston.

And remember: The tilt cylinder will NOT hold under engine power. It is designed to only hold the engine tilted for service, loading, shallow water running, etc. It will always drop if the engine is accelerated past about 1000 RPM or so.
 
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glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Thank you Frank, so it looks like the valve body needs work as well. The shaft on the piston is quite marked and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's been rubbing on something when extended. See picture. I"m guessing that there is zero hope that part number FA449015 from a 1989 5 bolt cover would be the same piston?
 

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Frank Acampora

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Nope! It is much larger.
 

glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Frank i thank you again, you are a wealth of knowledge. Ok my plan is to get the piston shaft machined and a sleeve fitted over the shaft. It will need to be the total length of the shaft. I can't find details of the seals that sit in the cap though. One appears to be an o ring and the other is showing signs of copper? I"m hoping I can get replacements of these or I will need to get the cap machined for another seal fitting.

I have looked and cannot find any second hand entire units listed on the web.
 
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RRitt

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

pm me. I can't do anything for a week but I used to have one of those trim assy somewhere.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Before you machine the shaft, PM RRitt. Machining the shaft and fitting a sleeve may be a poor idea. The hydraulic pressure can rise as high as 2000 PSI. Unless the sleeve is accurately fitted and/or shrunk on, there is an excellent chance that the hydraulic fluid will still leak past it,
 

glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Thank you very much. It is certainly cheap. I was lucky enough to find one yesterday with the tilt ram as well for $150. Shipping is in country so will be here very shortly. Again thank you very much.
 

glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

image.jpgOk so not so smooth sailing. I received my replacement parts and when I tried to remove the piston from the trim cylinder it was stuck in tight until..... To my surprise the shaft unscrewed from the head. See picture. This was a total shock and I thought it would be one piece. Next question how do I unscrew the damaged shaft from my existing piston without damaging it and would it require some kind of loctite seal to stop oil pushing up the threads??
 

pnwboat

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Might try clamping the good piston in a vice with a couple of pieces of hard wood such as Oak or hard Maple to cushion the vice jaws and prevent damage to the piston. Clamp it so that you are gripping the top and bottom area of the piston and not the edge where the "O" ring is located. May have to heat it up a bit with a propane torch. Of course, remove the "O" ring if you do heat it up. I would definitely use some loctite on the threads.
 

glennkil

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Changed the shaft on the piston, fitted a new O ring to the cap top and screwed it all back together. Major pain in the posterior getting fluid into the hole on the side of the pump but built a dodgy device by drilling a hole in the bottom of an aerosol plastic cap and pushing some aquarium hose into it. With the reservoir full the engine goes through the trim and tilt cycle now without any leaks but will slowly bleed down if left tilted half way up. tilted to 3/4 or full tilt it sits fine.

Is this likely to be the valve body?? Does anyone have a link to the Asian made ones I have read about? This engine is only a 50 HP so I'm hoping it will be a long term proposition.
 

pnwboat

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

Before you go and buy one of the Asian valve bodies, touch base with RRitt. If it is the valve body, and it's in good condition, probably significantly cheaper to re-build and will last longer.

If the tilt cylinder is leaking, it's pretty simple to rebuild too. Just a couple of "O" rings. Hardest part is unscrewing the top cap without damaging it.
 

Jiggz

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Re: New boat high and dry due to tilt and trim issue. Advice please

For use on 50 HP, the Asian ones are not too bad but as previously mentioned, a rebuilt OEM will probably outlast a brand new Asian VB. They've got the Asian ones on Amazon or eBay. Or you can just get hold of RRitt for rebuilding your existing one.
 
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