1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

[3rdMarDiv]

Just pulled the flywheel and found laminated coil looking bad. (see pics)...:blue:

I tested the ignition coils with and ohm meter and got 730 on both coils. Is this OK...?

The laminated coil on one side looks fine, but this one looks pretty rough. Would you replace this or is it still functional?

Lastly, do you know what voltage I should be seeing being produced or delivered to the spark plug through the spark plug wire...?

Thank you for all your help

 

[wickware]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

1. I do not know your ignition?s specs but I have had has good luck by looking at the condition of the spark.. I have a 1970 35 hp Chrysler that has been nice to me since 1984-85

2. Are you getting fire at your plugs and is it hot (popping and blue vs red?

3. Is the eng running as if it has good spark Gets up and go w/o bogging?

4. Looking at your pics, IMO sanding the ends free of rust could make a difference toward a stronger mag field.

5. Most important would be the correct point gaps 0.020 at the widest opening. I?m sure someone has these voltage specks taken from a manual or seen on and Engine Test Equipment.

 

[3rdMarDiv]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

1. I do not know your ignition?s specs but I have had has good luck by looking at the condition of the spark.. I have a 1970 35 hp Chrysler that has been nice to me since 1984-85

2. Are you getting fire at your plugs and is it hot (popping and blue vs red?

3. Is the eng running as if it has good spark Gets up and go w/o bogging?

4. Looking at your pics, IMO sanding the ends free of rust could make a difference toward a stronger mag field.

5. Most important would be the correct point gaps 0.020 at the widest opening. I?m sure someone has these voltage specks taken from a manual or seen on and Engine Test Equipment.

I have 3 of these motors 2, 203HD 72's and 202HG 75.

The 202HG runs great. When I got it the previous owner, cheap, had a mechanic replace the stator plate complete new.
The poor fellow never checked the fuel pump and I found a big hole in it. 8 dollar fix...

The 2, 203HD's run nice with muffs, but not at WOT.

Replace head gaskets, fuel diaphragms, plugs, hoses, cleaned points and gaped, cleaned carbs w/new gaskets, ordered new condensers. (thinking this may produce better spark)

Getting nice spark (white with blue tinge) by hand cranking with pull rope.

I will upload link to youtube video today...

So, you feel that that the condition of the laminated coil is serviceable...

I will be cleaning it up today.

Thanks again, any other thoughts are appreciated.

 

[wickware]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

Good Projects!

1. Yes, I feel if the spark is good the coil is good. I feel if performance is the concern it?s some place else.

2. ?GOOD? Fire, Fuel, Compression, are the 3 elements needed for good performance.

3. What is the compression on the Eng? Have you cleaned and adjusted Carb? Swap parts in question since you have others.

4. Have you checked for bad ?O-Rings? in quick couplings allowing you to suck air with fuel?

5. I find ?above idle tuning? with muffs or in a barrel not to be as good when I power out in the lake etc (Volume Matters IMO).

 

[3rdMarDiv]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

Good Projects!

1. Yes, I feel if the spark is good the coil is good. I feel if performance is the concern it’s some place else.

2. “GOOD” Fire, Fuel, Compression, are the 3 elements needed for good performance.

3. What is the compression on the Eng? Have you cleaned and adjusted Carb? Swap parts in question since you have others.

4. Have you checked for bad “O-Rings” in quick couplings allowing you to suck air with fuel?

5. I find “above idle tuning” with muffs or in a barrel not to be as good when I power out in the lake etc (Volume Matters IMO).

Compression is at 113 psi per cylinder.
Coupling O Rings are new and as specified by Mnf.
Carb was manual and sonic cleaned.

I just use the muffs for set up before torque testing on the water.

Q: Have you heard of replacing the just the points and not the entire point set. A complete set up for this motor is about 100 dollars for the 2 sets. I see just the points can be removed.

Thanks again

 

[wickware]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

All Sounds Good! Except I have not changed my points since 1984-85 vs cleaning and setting. Due to what I thought was crank case pressure?s vapor contaminating the points. They were never burned vs dirty from oil vapor, Etc. causing the engine to hesitate Out Of The Hole or Back Down Off Wide Open Throttle (WOT). It finally came to me that I could be adding too much oil to the point?s cam wic. From checks directly after good hard runs (5 mi) too much oil was determined (as I went to no vapor signs in the Mag attached).

I did see signs of vapor in your attachments (see my attachments from test to test).

1. Are you adding more than 1-2 drop of oil on the wicks?
2. Are you cleaning the Mag area and how often?
3. Are the points burned/pitted or dirty? Are you using original parts vs generic auto parts?

 

[3rdMarDiv]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

:facepalm:I just started working on this particular motor so, I have not cleaned or lubed the mag area or wick. My finished and working well motor I cleaned it with CRC Electric cleaner and did not lube the wick as someone before me used a bit too much.

Using OEM parts. I'm in no big hurry here so I wait until the opportunity arises to get the right part at the right price...

Thanks for the pics. Always enjoy seeing other guys work. Really like the ability you have to remove the laminated coils. Mine are fixed to the plate. Sure if I wanted or was forced to I could remove and exchange.

I really hope to find point sets for these motors at a reasonable cost...

With 3 twin brothers you can't just buy one something new...:facepalm:

The points were burnt, scorched and pitted a small amount. With a ignition file and 500 grit I got them looking quite good with minor pitting remaining. I now have great spark...

Do you know anything about timing...

I see where a timing light is employed and in the tech repair manual it speaks toward timing. I am just starting to look into this as I'm sure it could affect performance...

Thanks again, 3rdMarDiv

 

[3rdMarDiv]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

1972 Chrysler 20hp Outboard Model 203HD Testing - YouTube

This is a link to youtube with my last barrel test on 11/03/13
Notice the rough running.
Looks to me like it is surging every few seconds as the water shoots harder out of the discharge port...

Seems to be running decent enough, but when I get out on the lake and try to accelerate it bogs down...:grumpy:

Hoping you can see or hear something that gives an indication as to the reason for this.

Thanks Again

 

[wickware]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

I have never had an issue with timing vs dirty points vs pitted points.

1. Pitted points from my 1970s VW?s experience and small engines usually went back to bad or not correct condensers.
2. Timing in my 35hp?s manual has Ref to 32 degrees BTDC by using a depth gauge or counting the flywheel teeth divided by 360 (fly?s dia) to know what degree teeth rep from a fixed mark. I have not seen a strobe light method.
3. I have used the strobe light to know my timing is advancing from a fixed mark (fly and case) vs factory marks (on newer engines).

I hope this info was not too confusing.

 

[Nordin]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

Have looked at your youtube video. Sounds like it runing at only 1 cyl./missfire, how does it do at idle? In the video you run it at about 2-2500 rpm all the time.
On these 20Hp Chryslers you can not set the timing. You set the points to 020 and that?s it. The timing is fixt by the timingplate, you can adjust the throttle pickup point.
The throttlecurve has a marking line, when the roller touch the mark the throttle should start to move. Adjust at the link roller/carb throttle.

If you have used points it is importent that the wicker part of the points is not to worn. This engine has a magneto ign.system and it is importent that the magneticfield in the coils collapse at the right time. It collapse when the points open and the field is created by the magnets in the flywheel.

SO To worn wickers has a large impact to the performans to the engine.

How is the fuel/air screw at the carb? It should be about 1-1 1/8 turn out of slightly seated.

 

[3rdMarDiv]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

Thanks Nordin, that answers some questions for me.
I think you are onto something with the one cyl not burning.

I did have one cyl no spark.
I swapped the condensers and got 2 cyl w/spark.
Went to test and got no spark from either cyl.

Points are used and were scorched, but look good after cleaning.

I have incoming new condensers and will put those on.

I did clean the points well and gaped at 020.

I had adjusted the throttle as you stated.

By Wicker Point do you mean the faces/contact points...?

Low Idle Carb needle is at 1 1/8 to 1 /1/4...

I will have the condensers here in a day or so and will update this thread after I install and re-test the motor.

Thanks for watching the video and your observations.

Few other things I have done:
Cleaned Carb Replaced Gaskets, Set Float
Adjusted Low Idle to best running position at 1 1/4
Compression at 113 psi per cylinder
New Fuel Diaphragm installed, Reeds sitting level
Fuel Hoses replaced with in-line paper filter installed
New gas non-ethanol marine
Replaced Cylinder Head with new Gasket installed. No scoring within cylinder.
Ignition coils Ohm checked at 700 primary and 684 secondary.
Ignition Laminated Coils/Magnito cleaned.
Have on order new condensers.
New coupling O-Ring
Points well cleaned/gaped to .020 and producing good spark.
New Plugs NGK BR6HS gaped to .030.
Rebuilt Impeller Housing / replaced seals.
All work done as per Chrysler Tech Manual.
Rebuilt lower gear housing / replaced all seals.

 

[Nordin]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

My mean with "wicker" is the part of the points that are sliding to the camlob at crankshaft. If this part is to worn the points open at wrong time. The magnetic field are not "strong" enough to induce a good spark at the plugs.

When I read your "Few other things I have done" you says the coils reading 700 ohm primside and 684 secondary.
That is not right spec. for the coils.
Have you measure with the condenser and points disconnected?

The spec. should be 0,5-1,5 ohm primeside and 6-8Kohm secondary (condenser and points disconnected).

Check the rubberbot at the hightension side, the part that are connected to the plugs.
There is a spring with a hook whitch is stuck through the hightension wire. It is common that the spring is rusted and the surface will not give good electric connection.
Clean the spring if it has rust.

 

[3rdMarDiv]

Re: 1972 Chrysler 20hp 203HD Electrical Issues

The more I work on these motors, the more I learn what I don't know...

I will check the wickers against a known good running motor. I have three of these identical to one another.

Yes, I measured with wires disconnected. I should have noted that the ohm was at the ohm X 1000 range. So, it read 7000 and 6,840 respectfully.

I placed the red connector into the plug and the black onto the wire.

The plug inside the rubber casing looks like new. I did not take it out of the casing, but can rotate it to see the coil.

So, then is the secondary wire is reading as good?

Thanks for all your help...