Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

[Fathugo]

I bought a 1979 Chrysler and it wouldn't turn on because the firing order was wrong that was fixed and I got it started, When started I noticed the water was not flowing through the engine so I turned it off took of the lower unit and inspected the pump, it had crud and it was stuck. I cleaned it out and put it back together and now it will not start, it has not spark and after investigating and researching every thing I came to find that the blue wire coming from the ignition switch (when cranking) only brings in 6.3V and during my research I found it needs more than 9.5V. I did notice that the circuit breaker keeps tripping and the blue wire after the junction block gets hot along with the CD module . I purchased a new battery and the started seems to be working fine, I am not too sure of the ignition switch or maybe the wiring. Please any pointer on troubleshooting either or both of those items, all help will be gratefully appreciated!!!!

 

[leej]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

i had similar problems my 1991 force 120 at the beginning of the summer....not sure if any of it will help u in your endeavor as i am kinda new to the boat ownership world but here is the link to that thread if you wanna check out what all i found with mine...http://forums.iboats.com/force-chrysler-outboards/force-120-1-cylinder-not-firing-626239.html....i hope u the best

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

Well, it sounds like you have Motorola distributor ignition. If that is the case, there are two separate power sources: The blue wire supplies power to the CD box electronics. The internal capacitors are powered directly from the red wire and have power whether or not the ignition switch is on. There should also be a blue wire coming from the engine terminal strip to the distributor. This powers the electric eye.

Under normal running conditions, the CD box will get warm but not hot. However, either blue wire should not get hot. Thus: you either have a short circuit in the electric eye or the CD box. If it proves to be either, that component needs to be replaced. These can be found new, but are expensive. Finding a used one will be difficult although they do turn up on ebay from time to time. You could try franzmarine@aol.com AFTER checking and being certain that the component is bad, but again, he will be expensive--even for a used unit.

Sorry for bad news.

 

[Fathugo]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

Frank, Thank you for that information, Would you be able to tell me how to figure out which of the two it would be? Also I wonder after all the informaon I read hear, is it paosible to change the ignition system? I have read that there has been successful changes, changing out the CD box to something like a automobile ignition? Please let me know what you think. Thanks!!!

Well, it sounds like you have Motorola distributor ignition. If that is the case, there are two separate power sources: The blue wire supplies power to the CD box electronics. The internal capacitors are powered directly from the red wire and have power whether or not the ignition switch is on. There should also be a blue wire coming from the engine terminal strip to the distributor. This powers the electric eye.

Under normal running conditions, the CD box will get warm but not hot. However, either blue wire should not get hot. Thus: you either have a short circuit in the electric eye or the CD box. If it proves to be either, that component needs to be replaced. These can be found new, but are expensive. Finding a used one will be difficult although they do turn up on ebay from time to time. You could try franzmarine@aol.com AFTER checking and being certain that the component is bad, but again, he will be expensive--even for a used unit.

Sorry for bad news.

 

[Fathugo]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

leej, I cannot find the thread you are lead
ing me to??

 

[Nordin]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

As Frank says the distributer ign.system was manufactored in two typs. With points or with preamp (electronic eye).
You can identify which one you have by looking at the distributer. If it has one wire attached (white/black) it has points, if it has two wires (white/black and blue) it has preamp.
The points sytem can be converted to automotive battery system but not the preamp system.

Well you can find spare parts for this systems at CDI electronics. They have an aftermarket CD box 115-3301 and a preamp 135-4048.

Maxrules at the internet has this parts and they also has the factory made preamp F14048 cheaper!!!! then the aftermarket.

The CD box 115-3301 replace the factory CD box. It works find I have one on my 75Hp 1977 Chrysler.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

Yes, Nordin, but the 79 was the last year Chrysler used the Motorola ignition. It is almost certainly the electronic distributor. The good news is that Chrysler never changed the distributor casting. The electric eye bolts to the exact same holes as points. SO: Points can be swapped into the distributor. However, you do need a rotor with a four lobed cam. Then, simply remove the blue wire and leave the white wire from the CD unit attached. It will function normally.

NOW: If Fatty (Sorry, I couldn't resist) wants to convert to an automotive coil/points system, the following simple steps are needed:

1. buy a 12 volt automotive coil
2. buy the correct points for the Chrysler engine And find a rotor/shaft with a four lobed cam.
3 remove the electronic CD box and the electric eye
4. mount the coil where the CD box was mounted.
5 install the points and rotor.
6. Be certain that at the ignition switch the blue wire is attached to the "I" terminal.
7. At the engine run the blue wire from the terminal strip to the POS coil terminal.
8. Run a white wire from the coil NEG terminal to the points terminal on the distributor.

THAT's IT! Re-time and synchronize the engine.

Operation is as follows: power is supplied to the coil by the blue wire constantly but can not be used because it has no where to go. When the points close, current flows and builds a magnetic field in the coil primary windings. When the points open, current flow stops, the field collapses, a high voltage pulse is generated in the secondary windings and sent to the correct plug. The amount of time the points are closed is called the "Dwell" and directly determines the strength of the magnetic field. The points should be set to .010 for correct dwell.

Oh, I forgot: You also need a condenser across the points to help suppress arcing as they close or open and increase point life. The condenser need not be inside the distributor.

I also forgot: This system will not fire the surface gap plugs. Use plugs listed for a 20-25 or 50-55 HP battery ignition or magneto ignition engine. Don't remember exactly-- Champion L4J or J6J--something like that

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

While in some circumstances, this conversion would make sense, It is really regressing to a way less efficient ignition. Converting the engine to a '79-80 Prestolite non distributor ignition is a more costly but better option.

You do need the complete ignition system plus the correct trigger, alternator stator, mount, and flywheel. You need to modify the stator mount so it fits the engine block by inserting a spacer ring under the mount.

But, then you have a system with no points to adjust, precise timing with no wander and definite exact timing between cylinders, and a 60,000 volt spark.

That said, the engine in the avatar is a distributor Motorola ignition engine as are most of my bigger ones. They function well and at the current time I have no desire to convert to Prestolite. If, however, the CD units or electric eyes should fail, I probably would convert.

 

[Nordin]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

Okey Frank thanks for the information about the boltpattern for the preamp/points. I did not know that, but I have a couple of distributors with points and preamps for spare so I have not been forced to check that out.

BTW: fathugo I think it will be the same costs to convert to points system as to troubleshot you system and replace the bad component.
A preamp is about 100 dollars and a CD box is about 300 dollars. With a CD system you get a better performance and smoother idle compared to a points system.
With a CD system you need less maintenance then a points system.

 

[Fathugo]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

Frank, I found a Chrysler motor like mine except for the fact that is it a three cylinder 70 HP in oppose to mine being a 4 cyl 100 HP, I checked it and it sparks good, and the cd box and the distributor look just like mine of course except that it ha three wires from the distributor, Now my question is will the CD box work on mine? all the wiring is exactly like mine. The guy is asking for 350$ for the motor and says it is working fine, I didn't start it but I checked for spark and it sparked just fine. Please let me know, Thanks for your assistance!!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

The CD box is the same for all 3 and 4 cylinder Chrysler engines. So, it will work. The only difference between 3 and 4 cylinder engines is the shutter inside the distributor or the cam depending upon if the engine has points or electric eye, and the distributor cap.

Of course, you will use your existing distributor and cap when you swap the CD box. If you do buy the engine and elect to still use yours, you will have an extra starter, extra lower unit and perhaps even a couple of extra carbs---if the 100 uses smaller WB carbs.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

I was a bit late reading this and should of done a search first, but today I had similar problem with no spark and found it to be the electric eye as I had 12 volts at the blue wire but could get no voltage at the white/black wire when adjusting the timing screw which indicated to me that I had a good cd but the electric eye was not functioning, also in saying that I had a spare cdi box to check with . Again I wish I had read this about the distributor shutters though as I swapped out my dizzy for my 75hp and wondered why I had 2 cylinders running, I turned it off quickly but it also indicated that it was my 4 cyl dizzy/eye that was the problem as I couldn't even get no.1 or no. 2 to spark, with the old 100hp dizzy, nor could I get a spark when adjusting the timing in and out when at tdc and with no.1 spark plug earthed, yet with the 75hp dizzy I got a spark on no.1 straight away.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

So, if your electric eye is not functioning--and there is no way to test it short of swapping in a known good one, then you are stuck unless you have a spare eye OR a 4 lobed rotor. If you have the rotor, swap it into your 75 dist. and use the points to signal the CD box to fire.

btw: Check all connections inside the distributor. The eye is powered by the blue wire but must be grounded. If you have a poor ground or broken wire/connection obviously the eye will not work. However, re-reading, if you only have 2 cylinders not firing and two are firing, that may prove the electric eye IS working, at least part of the time if the non-firing is always on the same two cylinders.

Did you check the dist. cap for carbon arcing and broken terminals?. look inside and clean it well. Remove the two screws from the top of the cap and separate the halves. pull out the rubber and check the wire ends and cap terminals.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

It was only working on two cylinders when I had the 75hp dizzy in before that I couldn't even get a spark from TDC on no.1, this proved it was the eye in the 100hp dizzy as I couldn't get a spark on no.1 with it in yet the 75hp dizzy gave me spark at TDC on no.1 unlike the 100hp dizzy, It was clean inside and I redid the ht cables to make sure they were connected to the top part of the dizzy. I can however change over the eye from the 75hp and put it into the 100hp dizzy but I don't know how to pull the dizzy apart as you can't just unsrew the eye and remove it doesn't come out unless you pull the whole dizzy apart. Any help with dismantling would be appreciated.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

That's where you are wrong Mick. You don't need to pull the whole distributor apart.

The eye is held into the distributor with the same two screws as points. Chrysler never changed the dist. body, they just designed around it and drilled a second hole in the side for the blue wire bolt and insulators.

SO Take off the little red cap on top of the pulley if it has one. Some are integral with the nut, in which case you do not remove it. Now hold the pulley and remove the top nut. Remove the pulley. The pulley is tight so you may need to force it up. It also has a small woodruff key. It usually is stuck in the shaft but just in case, don't lose it.

Now, you have the option of swapping the complete rotor/shutter/ shaft assembly from the 100 dist. into the 75 and use the 75 dist. on the 100 engine or you can push down the shaft and swap electric eyes---no big deal, about 10 minutes-- The shaft is a loose interference fit in the two ball bearings so you may need to tap it out. Do not pull on the rotor. It is epoxy glued to the shaft and with these old parts, you just might break the glue joint.

Don't make me come down there.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

Oh really, thanks Frank I will be doing it straight away

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark

It is a pity I can't put the part of your brain Frank that knows about Chrysleroutboards and anything else mechanically related onto CD, You would make a fortune . Thanks again mate, motor as usual starts first go , big sigh, back to running smooth again love your work. If I lived in America and I was close I would drop around a carton of Budweisers if ya lucky could bring some Bundy Rum, mmmmm Bundy Rum.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Chrysler outboard 100HP no spark



Both motors running and ready to go!