89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

[mandasboat]

89' Force 125

I started another thread regarding the top carb leaking fuel. As a concern, I started there, took it off and apart today. The carb is in amazing condition. I cleaned it thoroughly with carb cleaner that's safe on plastics, and compressed air. Shot through everything. The needle was seating just fine, needle in great shape, no debris residue of any sort. The float was in great shape, same deal, functional and all, gaskets showed to sign of tear or wear.

Checked all spark plugs, all new and look great, spark tested, everything is good. They are BUHX plugs. That's where I left off. I've followed all wires, electrical, hoses, no tears anywhere, rips, everything has solid connection that I can visibly see.

The engine kicked over, started, ran about 5 seconds, then shut off. A few things I noticed.

1. During that 5 second tenure, no water came out of the 2 holes. (muffins hooked up, assured water was getting through) I don't know if that was to short for it to circulate through?

2. The bottom of the motor, where prop sits, right above it looks funky.. and by funky it doesn't look right.. I snapped pictures, it looks as whatever sat there is partially broke(shark fin looking maybe?), but besides that, its dripping oil. It only started doing this when I attempted to repeat start, and continued after I was done, which was about 6 retries then I stopped. This may be obvious for most of you, but new boater here.. Any helpful tips would be great.

3. Where do I go from here..

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

Actually that is the exhaust snout and from the looks of it from the pics it seems to be normal. Cooling water will only exit the nostrils (two holes on mid-leg) when snout is submerged under water with engine running in idle. These holes are called exhaust relief designed to divert exhaust when in idle with the snout under water to compensate for back pressure. For starting problems, make sure you pump the primer bulb until it is firm. Use the standard starting procedures:
1. Place control lever in fast idle
2. Engage choke by pressing down on ignition switch, turn key to on and start while continuing to press down.
3. Continue cranking until engine sneezes or starts but no more than 10 secs.
4. If engine sneezes but not start running, place key back in off position. Try again but this time do not engage the choke. If you continue to engage the choke you will flood the carbs and making it harder to start.

If engine will neither start or sneeze check for sparks and finally check for compression. Usually, if you have good compression, you can try using a spray bottle with oil-gas mix in it and try starting the engine while spraying into the carbs (you will need to remove the carb covers to do this. If the engine sneezes it means you have fuel problem related if not then it is electrical in nature.

 

[mandasboat]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

Actually that is the exhaust snout and from the looks of it from the pics it seems to be normal. Cooling water will only exit the nostrils (two holes on mid-leg) when snout is submerged under water with engine running in idle. These holes are called exhaust relief designed to divert exhaust when in idle with the snout under water to compensate for back pressure. For starting problems, make sure you pump the primer bulb until it is firm. Use the standard starting procedures:
1. Place control lever in fast idle
2. Engage choke by pressing down on ignition switch, turn key to on and start while continuing to press down.
3. Continue cranking until engine sneezes or starts but no more than 10 secs.
4. If engine sneezes but not start running, place key back in off position. Try again but this time do not engage the choke. If you continue to engage the choke you will flood the carbs and making it harder to start.

If engine will neither start or sneeze check for sparks and finally check for compression. Usually, if you have good compression, you can try using a spray bottle with oil-gas mix in it and try starting the engine while spraying into the carbs (you will need to remove the carb covers to do this. If the engine sneezes it means you have fuel problem related if not then it is electrical in nature.

Thank you for that great write-up! I've been searching along with posting my thread for anymore ideas and that just summed up pages of searching into a paragraph. I've picked up a few tips along the way.

1. Prime until bulb is firm (I did)
2. Place control lever in fast idle (didn't do, not clear how to position it in fast idle)
3. Push key in(engaging the choke) HOLD and turn key while pushed in (didn't do)
4. Continue for up to 10 seconds or until a sneeze, then stop (I did)
5. Retry starting, NOT engaging the choke (didn't do, probably why my carb had fuel spewing out during cranking)

The term "sneeze" is that the noise it makes after you've cranked it and just stops on its own?

I will try the spray bottle with fuel/oil mix. I've also attached a separate plastic gas tank with obvious oil/fuel mix, unsure of boat tank condition.

The oil/water that's dripping from the snout is normal than? The snout looks normal? That's good news then cause I was worried.

Thanks, will try the new suggestions!

Mike

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

The term "sneeze" (sometimes also called as "cough") refers to when the engine will fire on one cylinder and stops. It is the sound made when an engine sounds like it wants to start firing but will not continue. Usually, when this happens, the starter bendix gear will disengage from the flywheel (which is by design) so you need to let go of the starter sw. So your next move is to reset the ig sw to off and then try again without having to engage the choke.

As for fast idle, there are two ways to do this depending on the style of your control lever. One way is to push a center button on the control lever and then push the lever forward. It doesn't have to be all the way forward but at least half way. The other method is to pull the control lever outward directed towards the driver and then push forward. This is to start the engine at high idle rpm to quickly warm up or to give it more gas for starting. After warming up (about 2~3 minutes) you can pull back the lever in neutral.

 

[mandasboat]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

We are in BUSINESS! I choke started to about 8 secs and cut it out. Did 3 more attempts of restarting without choke. Each time it seemed to get closer and closer to kicking on but would not. Kicked out some white smoke (seemed normal amount nothing crazy). I then did a quick light spray of fuel/oil mix in each carb. At the 2nd attempt it kicked on and ran like a champ.

Now I don't know if it was due to the fuel/oil spray, or it was just getting there. Unsure the last time it was started so. I let it run for 20 minutes and this is what I've observed.

1. Water was coming out of the nostrils so that was good to see.
2. My RPM sat steady at 7k and would randomly spike to 8k, seems a bit high?
3. If I moved the throttle forward at all, the motor wouldn't make a buzz at all(thought my battery was dead). I had to keep throttle totally vertical for it to start. I did not move it at all after it ran either.
4. Volt meter showed it holding at 12v.. is this the norm?

I ran out of light, but I will get back at it tomorrow. I want to see how many times it'll take to start. I want to get it to fire up right away. I'll check spark tomorrow. I can't check compression since I do not have a gauge, but a buddy does that I will get one from. I want to see if it'll start without direct spray to carbs. If anyone can advise, I really want to go through the motor for anything, just to ensure it's all good. I was told it was well maintained but who really knows.

Anything else I can do to make sure everythings running okay

Thanks again for all your help Jiggz!

Mike

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

7-8k is extremely high. From an old Sanford and son show "You gonna blow sumptin out you head you need!"

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

7-8k is extremely high. From an old Sanford and son show "You gonna blow sumptin out you head you need!"

Since this model of engine can only max out around 5500 RPM, I am surmising he meant to say 700 and 800 RPM. Now that is really low for neutral RPM on muffs. It needs to be around 1000~1100 RPM. As for the engine not starting without having fuel spray, you need to make sure the idle mixture screws are set properly. I have the same engine and it is set at flat 1 turn out from lightly seated. As soon as the engine starts and idles properly then set the idle RPM as mentioned earlier.

 

[mandasboat]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

Since this model of engine can only max out around 5500 RPM, I am surmising he meant to say 700 and 800 RPM. Now that is really low for neutral RPM on muffs. It needs to be around 1000~1100 RPM. As for the engine not starting without having fuel spray, you need to make sure the idle mixture screws are set properly. I have the same engine and it is set at flat 1 turn out from lightly seated. As soon as the engine starts and idles properly then set the idle RPM as mentioned earlier.

Whoops! Yes didn't realize the rpm gauge was x100 not x1000. Thanks for correcting me. As for the mixture screw, is this located on the carb? Is there anyway you could snap a pic of this screw so I know where it's located. I would appreciate it. Thanks again Jiggz.

Mike

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

Whoops! Yes didn't realize the rpm gauge was x100 not x1000. Thanks for correcting me. As for the mixture screw, is this located on the carb? Is there anyway you could snap a pic of this screw so I know where it's located. I would appreciate it. Thanks again Jiggz.

Mike

You cannot miss the idle mixture screw on this carb. It is the only brass screw with spring on it located on top of the carb facing the black carb cover. There is a hole on the carb's black cover where you can insert a quarter inch or even 3/8's flat tip screw to do the adjustment.

First you need to verify the current setting by marking it. Then slowly turn the screw clockwise while counting the turns to close it until you start to feel resistance meaning it is starting to hit bottom. DO NOT FORCE OR TIGHTEN THROUGH! Instead, start backing out by turning CCW one full turn. Do this on the other carb also.

Now try running the engine and if it idles with control lever in neutral, verify the rpm to about around 1000~1100 rpm. Adjust using the idle screw setting which is located at the bottom of the control tower. This is the vertical rod connecting the linkage on both carbs and to the trigger timing rod. If you still cannot locate it watch the video Frank prepared in one of the sticky post and he pointed on this idle screw setting and also the control tower.

 

[mandasboat]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

You cannot miss the idle mixture screw on this carb. It is the only brass screw with spring on it located on top of the carb facing the black carb cover. There is a hole on the carb's black cover where you can insert a quarter inch or even 3/8's flat tip screw to do the adjustment.

First you need to verify the current setting by marking it. Then slowly turn the screw clockwise while counting the turns to close it until you start to feel resistance meaning it is starting to hit bottom. DO NOT FORCE OR TIGHTEN THROUGH! Instead, start backing out by turning CCW one full turn. Do this on the other carb also.

Now try running the engine and if it idles with control lever in neutral, verify the rpm to about around 1000~1100 rpm. Adjust using the idle screw setting which is located at the bottom of the control tower. This is the vertical rod connecting the linkage on both carbs and to the trigger timing rod. If you still cannot locate it watch the video Frank prepared in one of the sticky post and he pointed on this idle screw setting and also the control tower.

Excellent write-up Jiggz thank you very much for that!

I watched Franks video which helped as well. I adjusted the mixture screw according to your directions. It was about 1/3 of a turn off from 1 full turn from the tightened postioned(made sure to stop turning once I felt it touching). Both carbs adjusted accordingly.

Also adjusted idle screw, thanks again for text write up it pinpointed right to the spot. Franks video helped to identify the 2 rods. Adjusted the idle screw accordingly, and now idling at 900/1000 and jumps to 1100 periodically.

Also, no direct spray needed to start it up today. Fired up on 2nd attempt! Thanks for all your help Jiggz! It's nice that someone can take the time to explain a procedure that I'm sure you've explained plenty times before, and not just drop in with a 1 liner, and leave me hanging with nothing. I appreciate that.

I'm still experiencing a little fuel coming out from top carb when I tilt motor to the up position. Not a lot, about maybe 2 tablespoon worth, is this normal when raising the motor up?

Mike

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

Fuel dumping from the both carbs when fully tilted is absolutely normal. The fuel leaks from the throat and carb bowl vents due to the tilting of the bowl resulting in the fuel level rising to the vent and some to the main jets. If you want to minimize this you will have to reset the carb's float level a little lower so it will start to close the needle even before the bowl reaches half full. The disadvantage though is that the engine could starve of fuel during WOT operation.

The other option which is more laborious is to run empty the carb bowls before docking or tilting the engine. To do this you will need to disconnect the quick disconnect from the fuel lines and ran the engine for about 10~20 seconds. Personally, I just leave mine like it is which I would recommend you doing.

 

[djockey21]

Re: 89' 125 Force motor won't stay running

Is your motor wanting to crank at all? I had the same problem as I had to play with my linkage a little. What I had was the motor would turn over however it would not crank. It got fuel no problem. So I held open the carbs and had someone turn the key and she cranked up. If I released the carb linkage the stalled. So I played with the linkage and would get it to start for a few seconds and then cut out. So I just had to keep playing with the linkage to get it to start first key turn and now it idles around 900/1000 rpm on muffs. You can do this by trying to open the carbs up with a screwdriver holding hte carbs opened just a little. Don't open it too much as it will rev the engine high.