Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
I have a 1991 Force 35 I bought last year and it sat for the year.

This year, I mounted it, bought a new seal for the fuel pump, and wired it.

The problem is, if the boat sits for any period of time (hours or days), it won't start unless I put a squirt of starting fluid in the carb. If I let it run for a few minutes after that, then it starts fine subsequently.

I'm not sure what's going on. Is it bad gas, bad fuel/oil ratio, or something else?

Has anyone had the same issue?

Thank you.
 

Barnacle_Bill

Admiral
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Messages
6,469
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

Check your choke/enrichner and don't use starting fluid in a 2 cycle motor. No oil in it. Use some pre-mix in a spray bottle.
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

I've been reading up and that and it seems really bad to use starting fluid on a 2-cycle. I have plenty of spray bottle to throw some 50:1 pre-mix for use as a starting fluid.

I also read up on the de-carbing with SeaFoam. That's on m to-do list after I buy some SeaFoam.
 

wickware

Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
1,286
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

1. If the starter fluid starts it the 50:1 premix should.

2. Have you examined your chocking mechanism good to know you are getting full choke?

3. Have you looked in the carb to know some solid fuel is getting up there vs air when priming?

4. Does it run good once you are going to say your system is running good and not sucking any air (lines/couplings)?

5. Are you using old ethanol gas that has not been treated with StaBil or Etc gas treatment?

6. A clear in-line fuel filter shows me that I have a good fuel flow (after the thank easily seen but get some opinions).
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

UPDATE:

I've had a chance to take it out to the local lake on two occasions.

1- It doesn't doesn't want to start from cold without me squirting some premix into the carburetor. With the premix, it starts every time. Once it's warm, it starts without any problems.

2- It hesitates/miss when I run up the throttle to WOT and then cuts out. By this, I mean that it revs normally, then RPM down, up and down, up and down, until it eventually stalls out. If I back up the throttle, then it won't stall. I've had it running across the lake pretty WOT but I can hear it revving down, and then up, and down, and then up. Eventually it'll lose power at WOT and I have to backup the throttle to keep it from stalling.

Is there any way I can test/troubleshoot with it in a water barrel? I've taken it out pretty much because I wanted run it WOT and test it. It's hard to do in a barrel of water.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

Try replacing your fuel pump diaphragm. Sounds like it's starving for fuel at WOT. Make sure the fuel line and any "quick connects" are in good condition. Make sure the fuel tank vent is open.
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

Hi pnwboat,

That's a good thought. The diaphragm was replace last year. I'd just replace the seal gasket this year.

It does sound like it is starving for gas. I've taken the carburetor off and clean it out. I'll go through the fuel system again to see if there's anything I've missed. It's a bit frustrating.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,657
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

When the motor is revving down, try squeezing the primer bulb.
If this helps to pick up the rpm, then problem is likely in fuel pump, fuel pickup in the tank is dirty, or there is an air leak in the fuel line.


If this does not help, look for an air leak in the line between the fuel pump and the carb.
Also, check the carb float to make sure it is adjusted properly.

As for starting cold, check to make sure your choke is working properly.
Also, make sure you are following the correct starting procedure:


Open fuel tank vent

Check the kill switch, place in "run" position

Squeeze fuel primer bulb till firm.

Advance the throttle 3/4 way, without putting it in gear. -- This is done by either pushing a button in the center of the controls, or pulling the shift handle toward the driver, or raising the fast idle lever, all depending on what control unit you have.

Turn the key to the on/run position.

Activate the choke by pushing in on the key. The choke is only working while the key is being pushed in.

Turn the key to start while continuing to hold the key in.

Release the key and choke when it starts.

3-5 seconds of "choke", is usually enough.

Be ready to pull the throttle back toward the idle/neutral position, when the engine starts and the revs increase.

Continue to pull the throttle back as the engine warms up.

You should not have to use the choke much, if at all, once the engine has warmed up.

Engine should start within 10 seconds of turning the key.
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

Hi Roscoe,

That's a nice list of things to try and I will try them all.

One other things I actually want to do is get some clear fuel line in there so I can see if there is an issue with delivery.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
17,923
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

The inline connectors,can suck air.
Remove or replace with OMC style.
Do a compression test.
What style choke do you have?Pic?
The enricher has a diaphram that can go bad and cause the symptoms you have.
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

This morning I went to check on the motor taking everyone's suggestions to mind. While I was squeezing the bulb, I was closely observing the fuel pump and noticed it was actually leaking gas. Checked the six screws and they were a little loose and I tighten them. Squeezed the bulb again, still leaking.

I took the pump off, and apart, check the diaphragm and noticed a very small tear. That's weird, it was replace just last year. I just ordered a new one and a new gasket. I'm a bit skeptical that a torn diaphragm will cause the fuel pump to leak because the torn was in the inside, not the outside wall.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm including a picture of the pump diagram and the side it is leaking, opposite side of the gasket.

Force 35 Fuel Pump.JPG
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
17,923
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

If the motor backfired/stuttered/sneezed it can rip the diaphram.
If the screws were not tight enough and the gasket became saturated it will leak(weak spot).
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

Just quick status update:

I received a new diaphragm and installed it. After everything was tightened, including all of the quick connects, I am happy to report that nothing was leaking when I primed but bulb.

I didn't have chance to take it out to the lake and test, yet, because this weekend was not a good weather one. I'm hoping to do so in this coming Memorial day weekend. I hope this is the end of my trouble.

I will report back next week after I get a chance to take it out. Wish me luck.
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

Reporting back:

Today, took it out to the local lake to test.

Good news: The motor starts without the need to squirt any gas into the carburetor.

However, for some reason, it doesn't want to stay running. It starts but then stalls and seems as though idling too low. There's no gas leakage of any kind, the bulb is firm, I've added marine stahbil to the gas. Can I adjust the idle on this motor? I don't see any adjustments for it.

Bad news: On the way in, I ran into some weed and suddenly noticed some smoke coming out of the exhausts and no water spraying out. My fear was that either the impeller is shot, or some junk go in there and plugged it up. I shut off the motor and used the trolling motor to get in.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
17,923
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

Do a compression test.
Air screw: 1 turn out for initial settings.
Water in the fuel???
Stabil is good Seafoam a waste of $
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

I will have to do a compression test. I'm still having some issues.

After 2 months of not using the boat, I had the chance to do so today.

On a full tank of gas, it ran ok for about an hour. I still could not run at WOT but on cruising, it was fine.

At about an hour into the run, I started losing power and motor started sputtering. It finally stalled. It starts but would not run when I put it into gear.

I finally figured that if I start it and then give it a couple of revs while still in neutral, it would run when I put it in gear. Then it would sputter again about 5 minutes later. It seems like it's starving for gas.

It idles perfectly fine but stalls when put into gear. The fuel bulb is solid but went flat when I primed it.


Do a compression test.
Air screw: 1 turn out for initial settings.
Water in the fuel???
Stabil is good Seafoam a waste of $
 
Last edited:

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

I just read an interesting post and it might related to my issue.

I might have a blocked fuel line because I did noticed that I could not prime my bulb when this issue occurred. The bulb was not flat, but when I squeezed it it went flat. Maybe something is blocking my fuel line. I'll take them all off and the quick-connects and check them out.
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

I cleaned out the fuel line from tank to carb.

Nothing really seems amiss.

However, I did noticed something. The fuel line from tank to fuel pump is 1/4" while from pump to carb is 5/16". Is it possible that the 1/4" is undersized?
 

Evinrude_NooB

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
142
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

I'm closing this thread.

Thank you all for your help and suggestions.
 

slag

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
471
Re: Force 35 - Needs starting fluid to start

did you ever figure it out?
 
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