1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

[DaveMcG11]

Hello,

I have a 1990 18' Bayliner Capri with a 1990 Force (by U.S. Marine) 90 HP outboard. The last two weekends I have had some problems and I was hoping to get some input.

Two weeks ago I had the boat out tubing. We dropped in the water and ran about 12-15 miles from the dock the the tubing spot. The boat started like it always does (a couple turns choked then a turn of the key and starts right up) and we had no problems running WOT to our tubing spot. Had no problems tubing 5 or 6 runs with shutting the engine off each time then starting right back up. Then the problem started....after about the 6th time of shutting the engine off I could not get the boat to start up again. Then it drained my battery completely....dead in the water. Had to wait for a tow back to the dock. I figured that I drained my battery faster than it could get recharged. So getting home I plugged it into my trickle charger and kept it topped off the whole week. I have a deep cycle marine battery by the way. So then this past weekend I was set to go out fishing, but wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to have any issues before getting on the water so I hooked up the earmuffs and it started on the first turn of the key. I let it run idle for about 10 minutes and figured that I was fine.....BIG mistake. Got stuck on the water again waiting for another tow! This time the boat took a little bit more time than normal to start, but once we started running it was fine. The fishing spot was about 30-40 minutes from the dock. Once we arrived at the fishing spot I did not even have it back in neutral before it shut off. Again, I could not get it to start. Again, began to sound like battery was drained.

When I say that I could not get it to start I mean that the starter engages and turns the flywheel, but it will just not turn over. This happens repeatedly until the the starter begins to drain the battery.

I have a couple of thoughts.....

1. My battery may be faulty (even though it is only two years old and was stored indoor last winter)

or

2. My battery is not being charged when I am running. I checked my connections to me rectifier last night and there was a connection that was slightly loose. Could this have caused the engine to have problems while running or would this just cause problems with charging the battery alone? I will hook it up tonight and see what my voltage is when I am running (if I can get it running.

I would appreciate any input!

Thanks

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Check all of your battery cable connections including the ground. Don't just check them visually, undo them and clean them off with a wire brush or something similar. Check connections on the battery, starter solenoid, and ground connection on the engine block. May also want to have the battery tested. If all that checks out, you might have a starter problem.

The starters are pretty easy to take apart and clean up. Hardest part is getting the brushes back in place to get the brush cap back on, but not impossible.

You can test the charging system with a voltmeter. It should be reading approx. 14.5 volts at the battery with the engine running at 2500 RPM's or higher

 

[emoney]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

What would cause it to die, pnw? Does this engine use power when it's running? Can you pull start these motors?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

The ignition system does not use any battery power to run. Yes you can pull start the motor without the battery connected. Main purpose of the battery is to power the starter. After the motor is running, the only battery drain are the accessories...gauge lights, radio, fishfinder etc.

Causes for the starter to not work are bad battery cable or bad battery cable connection. Bad charging system or bad battery itself, or bad starter.

 

[DaveMcG11]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Thank you for your responses. I will undo all connections and clean tomorrow and I will also check the voltage if I can get it to start. I will post back with results.

 

[emoney]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

He's also saying to pull that starter off and have a look in there. Somebody just the other day with the same complaint found one of the brushes had fallen off. He put it back and all is well now.

Is your battery taking a charge at home on say a trickle-charger? Check your dates on the front of it because some of them come with a 2 year warranty and if the starter has sucked that much life out of it, wouldn't be a bad thing getting it replaced, that's for sure.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

After checking all the connections.
Remove the plugs and try to turn over.
If it won't turn then.
Clean the starter.Replace the brushes.
Then do a compression test,just for fun.

One of the first steps in diagnosing any problem is a spark/comp test.

 

[DaveMcG11]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Yes, It takes a charge from the trickle charger just fine. I think that I have an 18 month replacement on my battery and of course it is 24 months old!!!

I will pull the starter today as well and clean it up. I have seen a couple of forums on here that deal with that. I appreciate the input and I will keep you posted on my progress!

 

[DaveMcG11]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Okay I have good news and bad news. I pulled the starter and cleaned it all up and put it back on. Put it on the earmuffs and fired right up like it was a brand new starter! This is why you guys are great! Then did a spark test and spark on all were good.

Now for the compression test that we like to do just for fun! Results: Cyl 1 - 40 psi; Cyl 2 - 120 psi; cyl 3 - 120 psi. Opened her up and at first glance everything looked okay and just was wishfully thinking that I needed a new gasket.....then I spotted it. The small damage visible on the top of Cylinder #1. All of the walls look good with no visible gouging. There is also a small bit of damage on Cyl # 3 as well. I don't know where to go from here! Is it worth my time and money to try and repair beyond this point?!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Yes it's worth fixing.
Looks like you might have gotten it in time.
Try to remove the piston and see what kind of damage is in there.J

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

This is a timely thread!! I have the same motor and boat and I'm just 'launching' the redo of my centre piston which suffered the same fate. Check out the other thread originally started by Frank on changing out the piston.
I'm hoping it goes well...but like you, first I have to get that piston 'outta there'....
good luck.
BP

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

I just had the same exact problem on my #3 piston. That little ding was caused by a broken top ring which I also found out from this forum. So just ordered the wiseco pistons as recommended by none other than "Force/Chrysler Neptunus Rex" Frank A!

 

[DaveMcG11]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

I am going to pull the pistons out this afternoon when I get home from work. I have a question regarding the wiseco pistons. On their website they do not have my outboard model listed (1990 90 HP Force). Jiggz, do you have the same model? If so did you order direct from wiseco?

 

[DaveMcG11]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Okay, so I finally got a chance to pull the piston out today. I actually pulled all three. The cylinders all look good and I think that I will replace all three pistons while I am in there just for a piece of mind. Can anybody point me in the right direction for ordering wiseco pistons? They do not show any available for my model (1990 Force 90 HP) on their website. By cylinder size is 3.375" as measured with my caliper (diameter of cylinder and not the piston). Does anyone know if the piston for the 1991 model will also fit my 1990 model?

Thanks again for everyone's help!

 

[DaveMcG11]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Does anybody have any opinions or advice for me on this?

 

[emoney]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Dave, I don't have the answer, but I do know that this exact question was just answered by Frank just the other day in either Jiggz's thread or someone's. Go to the top of this forum and look at all the threads in the past few days as it references pistons on a 90hp. There are Wiseco pistons if my memory serves correct, but that thread has the exclusive info that you need. Otherwise, you'll have to wait for Frank to log back in and find your thread.

##EDIT## Here's the thread in question;
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=576390

Evidently there were 2 different bores on the '90 model 90hps so that may be why there's confusion in listing them.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1990 Force 90 HP electrical problems?

Gotta know what model?A/B/C???
Serial #??
Any info?
Looking at the parts lists.
Seems there is only one size used in 1990.
The 120 and 90 both use the same.
But they don't list the size????

3.312 is what Wiseco lists as a standard size.
They have .020 up to .040 over.
$120 plus bearing/

If your gonna bore it?
Only go .020 unless you really have to.
You don't need to replace all 3 just the bad one.

Now that it's getting fixed.
WHY did it go bad???
Enough oil?Broken ring?Carb set wrong?