Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

[adam85bayliner]

I hooked up my battery terminals backwards and now i have no spark on any of the 3 cylandars. The motor is a 1985 Force 85hp. I have tried a few test that i have seen here on iboats but it hasn't worked.

1) I disconnected the two white kill wires from the terminal block then tested for spark but there was none.

2) I disconnected the black wire from the rectifier and tested again. Still no spark.

3) I visualy inspected the CDI Moduals and they look good. Is there a test that i can do to make sure these are not bad.

Where do i go from here? Are there more test that i can try.

Please Help.

 

[bentle]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Two things come to mind.
First check the circuit breaker box for a reset.
Second is you may have fried the regulator/rectifier and will need replacing.
Take the old one into a napa or any auto parts store and they should have a replacement.
Check around from battery to the motor for any burned or melted wires.

 

[adam85bayliner]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Thanks bentle for the advise. I just bought a new rectifier at Radio Shack this morning and will try to find time to install it tonight after work. There is a breaker. I pushed the reset button, but the button doesn't stay down. Should it?

 

[bentle]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Yes it should.
After you install the new rectifier, try to reset the breaker and see what you get.
I would double check to make sure battery cables are in the right location.
Make sure the positive isn't melted and grounding out anywhere.
If you get it fixed? Post it here and it may benefit someone else.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Looks like Bentle already got you covered. In addition just so you know what you are up against here's a wiring diagram although it's for an 88-91 85HP. Note there are two ckt bkrs one for the rectifier and one for the Tilt and Trim system. Note also the stop switch which is referred to as "kill switch" at the control panel which "shunts" the cd modules to ground when activated. In layman's term at normal operation the stop switch is open or disconnected to ground. When activated it connects to ground disabling the cd modules. Be careful how you test for sparks, for if you do not have a spark tester and just leaving the cd modules "opened" it can damage the cd modules. The easiest and cheapest way to test for spark is using an in-line spark tester which you can buy at any auto parts store for dirt.

 

[adam85bayliner]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Note also the stop switch which is referred to as "kill switch" at the control panel which "shunts" the cd modules to ground when activated. In layman's term at normal operation the stop switch is open or disconnected to ground. When activated it connects to ground disabling the cd modules. Be careful how you test for sparks, for if you do not have a spark tester and just leaving the cd modules "opened" it can damage the cd modules. The easiest and cheapest way to test for spark is using an in-line spark tester which you can buy at any auto parts store for dirt.
View attachment 148157

So this "kill Switch" does it look like a switch and where is it located. How can i tell if it is grounded (not sending anything to the CD modules)

So testing for spark by holding the plug to the block is not a good idea? I know this is commonly done for small engines but then again most small engines don't have this much electrical.

I know my local parts store has this Spark Tester. Would this work. (Image Attached)

Thanks for you help.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

I guess you can also use that spark tester although I was thinking more of this type. Yes, disconnecting the plug wires and not having it discharged to ground can damage CD modules. Not always but can. The kill switch could also be your lanyard switch. Check the wiring diagram I posted and trace that one white wire coming out of the module and disconnect it for now until you can verify the kill switch is not activated. Not having spark takes a lot of troubleshooting for it involves more than just CD modules, it also includes the stator, triggers and coils. You can take voltage readings from the stator output to ensure you have input voltage to the CDM's (yellow and blue wire), then you will also need to read the voltage output of the trigger (green and orange wires) to ensure you have trigger input to the CDM's. If you have both of these now it's time to read output from the CDM's taken from each red or orange wire to ground. If there is no output then the CDM are bad. If there is output but no sparks then the coils are bad.

 

[adam85bayliner]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

So here is an updated list of what i have done now.

1) I disconnected the two white kill wires from the terminal block then tested for spark but there was none.

2) I disconnected the black wire from the rectifier and tested again. Still no spark.

3) I visualy inspected the CDI Moduals and they look good. Is there a test that i can do to make sure these are not bad.

4) I bought a new rectifier any way even though test 2 didn't show that the rectifier was bad. installed it and tried again. Still no spark.
I tried test 1 again with no luck.

5) I read this from another site and tried it "Disconnect the kill wires from the CD and connect a DC voltmeter between the kill wires and engine ground, turn the ignition switch on and off several times. If, at any time, you see voltage appearing on the meter, there is a problem in the harness or ignition switch. At NO TIME SHOULD YOU SEE BATTERY VOLTAGE ON A KILL CIRCUIT." I tested between the kill wires on the terminal side of the motor and the ground used for the rectifier.

6) Then i checked the blue and yellow wires from the Stator for OEM Resistance and there was none. this file http://issuu.com/cdielectronics/doc...t.xml&backgroundColor=000000&showFlipBtn=true on page 18 states that there should be 680-900 but i found none.

Does that mean my stator is bad. Do other things normaly go bad when the stator goes?

 

[shytownborn]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

seems like your stator is no good, you should have readings across the yell,blue wires, the stator supplies the power for the mods to work, with an open in the stator windings[ no resistant readings] no power will be delivered to the mods

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

The stator could be bad but this shouldn't be connected with you inadvertently connecting the battery backwards. Can you tell us if the engine used to run before the battery incident? Stator windings are heavy gauge wires and takes some serious short-ckt to burn them open not to mention there will always be a burn mark where the burnt winding happened. I'm presuming you are doing the resistance reading correctly. For replacing the stator involves a little more work but if you can validate it is open, then the only option is to first replace it. No, when a stator winding is burnt or opened due to mechanical action no other components should be affected except the engine will not run because there will be no sparks.

 

[bentle]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Is the motor even turning over? If the circuit breaker is still tripped then you cannot get spark.
Is this what you meant by not getting any spark? No juice to the starter or the motor wont turn over??

 

[adam85bayliner]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

The engine does turn over. The starter engages. The choke seems to work and all the lights on the boat work. The motor ran last fall when i put it away for the winter. But when i went to take it out for the first time this year i accidentally hooked the cables backward. I did try to turn the boat motor over with the battery cables backwards, not realizing that i had done it.

Then the motor wouldn't start. So i checked to see if it was getting spark and it was not. on any of the 3 cylinders.

So just to make sure i am reading the wires correctly when checking the stator, I should be connecting the yellow wire to the blue wire, correct? Not blue to blue or yellow to yellow. When doing the OEM resistance test.


The breaker button does seem to not want to click down when i push it. But i tested continuity through the breaker by disconnecting the wires and doing the test from one post to the other and the breaker had continuity. This means the breaker is working right?

Is it possible to do a Voltage test on the stator with just a normal multimeter?

 

[bentle]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

The circuit breaker button should stay in when you reset it.
Strange that you are able to even get it to turn over with it tripped.
There has to be a short somewhere and with that breaker not reseting
this may be why there is no spark to your cylinders.
A short meaning a positive grounding to a negative somewhere.
Do you have power tilt & trim, and is it functioning properly.
There may be two circuit breaker boxes , one is power to trim&tilt, and the other the motor and starter.

 

[adam85bayliner]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

The circuit breaker button should stay in when you reset it.
Strange that you are able to even get it to turn over with it tripped.
There has to be a short somewhere and with that breaker not reseting
this may be why there is no spark to your cylinders.
A short meaning a positive grounding to a negative somewhere.
Do you have power tilt & trim, and is it functioning properly.
There may be two circuit breaker boxes , one is power to trim&tilt, and the other the motor and starter.

I do not have power tilt/trim. I only see once circuite breaker and it is right below the electrical bar on the starter side of the motor. Do you know where the other might be if i had one?

 

[bentle]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Ok well if you did it would be on the bottom of the motor cowling same side as the other.
Most likely there isn't one though.
Need to figure out why that breaker will not reset or why the button doesn't stay in after
you press it. Power generally goes from the battery to solenoid switch then on to the rest of the
motors electrical.
Really look closely at all the wires next to the motor for a short, and possibly a bad ground.
Im not good at explaining how to test the electrical with a volt meter so ill have to leave that up
to the others. Who knows maybe frank will jump in here, he knows his stuff.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

If there was continuity across the ckt breaker it's probably working good. It is possible to read voltage output from a stator except you will need a partner to start and keep cranking over the engine while you have your multimeter (set to AC voltage reading) across one of the sets of blue and yellow wire. Make sure you have the correct partners of blue and yellow. Refer to the wiring diagram and make sure you read across a set of blue and yellow that is connected to one of the CD, that indicates a good set. The voltage output will be around 180~200 VAC at cranking speed. While troubleshooting, disconnect the rectifier for now until you get sparks and the engine running. Post back results and we will pick it up from there. And just for you info, here's a pic of a ckt breaker which looks alike the one you have.

 

[adam85bayliner]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Ok, so I believe my stator is bad. No continuity and no volts coming from it. So I bought a new one. And i am ready to install it. I just wanted to make sure that there was no wrong way to hook it up before i turn the boat over. There are two green/yellow wires that go to the rectifier (does it mater which wire hooks to AC1 and AC2?). Then there are two sets of brown/yellow and brown/blue wires, that go to the CDI switch boxes. (does it matter which pair goes to which CD Box?) also there was a paper with the new Stator (from CDI Electronics) that states:

"This stator has been redesigned to enhance the durability and reduce inventory stock levels. It replaces the original multiple windings with a single winding using larger wire. This design allows ALL of the Blue (Brown/Blue) wires to be connected together and ALL the Yellow (Brown/Yellow) wires to be connected together from the stator. This design allows the stator to be used for the 2, 3, 4 and 5 cylinder applications."

However the diagram (Attached) that goes with it only shows the blues connecting together and then going to the first CDI Box.


Have any of you ran across this? If i try it first without hooking the Brown/Blues together and the Brown/Yellows together will it hurt it?

Just want to make sure it don't burn anything out. And of course this time i will make sure the battery cable are correct. lol

Thanks for any advice.

Adam

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Unfortunately, it's hard to see the wiring pics you attached. Even after zooming I cannot make out the colors or labels. Do you know if this is on CDI's page?

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

You should connect the yellow wire from the stator to yellow wires that of both CD modules and the blue wire from the stator to that of the blue wires of the CD modules.

 

[adam85bayliner]

Re: Hooked up battery backward, 1985 Bayliner with a 85hp Force (Now no spark)

Unfortunately, it's hard to see the wiring pics you attached. Even after zooming I cannot make out the colors or labels. Do you know if this is on CDI's page?

Yes, you can go to page 118 of this online pdf: http://issuu.com/cdielectronics/doc...t.xml&backgroundColor=000000&showFlipBtn=true

I have the 3 cyl Force. I bought a CDI electronics Stator and I have a CDI electronics CD Boxes.