Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

[simpleinterest]

Motor started right up when I bought it back in November. It cranks fine. It backfires occasionally but won't start. I noticed that the throttles are not opening at all, regardless of whether the shifter is in gear or neutral only. Choke is working fine. Could the linkage be seized or is there some kind of electric safety that must be energized to allow the throttle to move?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

Year,serial#?
If it's turning over then the linkage shouldn't be the problem.
First start with a compression test and then a spark test.
Backfiring could be the flywheel key is sheared.
The shifter should advance the linkage.
There is a fast idle position.What shifter?Pics?
Older models have a silver push/pull button.Pull it out and then push the throttle forward.
Newer models.The whole handle pulls out and the throttle pushed forward.
This should advance the linkage.
Even with the idle too slow it should fire from the choke.
The plunger on the choke moving the shutters closed?

 

[simpleinterest]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

I had to put it back in storage... owners association doesn't take kindly to boats.

It's an 88 Capri 1700. The shift mechanism is similar to what we had on our 88 Ciera. It pulls out for throttle only. Regardless of whether it's in gear or throttle only, the throttles on the carbs don't open, though the prop does lock up. When I disconnected the linkages from the engine, both moved freely.

I think is has to be something simple..... I haven't ran it since Nov so I doubt it's compression or a sheared key.

What rotten luck. I live in rainy Washington, we have ten days of sun in the forecast, and it doesn't want to start. Must be Murphy's Law of Boating.

I will post photos next time.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

Did you check for a broken plastic ball link either at the throttle cam or on the tower? These plastic links do get brittle with age and do break.

Check FAQs in the sticky to set carb opening. These carbs do not open much until the throttle is fully advanced. Additionally, it the linkage is mis-set, they may not open fully when the throttle is at WOT position.

 

[simpleinterest]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

I snapped some photos out at the storage site, but forgot to bring along the instructions for adjusting the linkage. The first photo shows the linkage with the throttle all the way forward in drive. The second shows the same, with the linkage disconnected on the engine side. Notice the position of the roller needle on the cam. I think some adjustments are in order. With the throttle all the way forward, the timing advance linkage is up against the engine, preventing the carbs from opening up.

 

[simpleinterest]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

I went through steps 1-5 on the sticky today. I lengthened the ball link quite a bit but still, the butterflies are far from wide open. If I adjust the link out too much more, I think I'll run out of thread. Is it possible that the throttle cam is not properly mounted on its shaft? That's the only explanation I can think of.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

From the pics.
The throttle isin't advancing.
The cable could be bad?
The shifter bad?
Motor off,put shifter in forward,as you push it forward,
have someone turn the prop so it can engage
and allow the throttle to advance.
See where it ends???
If these are original cables they probably nee to be replaced???

 

[simpleinterest]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

The linkage moves freely when disconnected from the motor. Take a look at these photos. Both were taken at the same time. Mechanically, I don't see how the carbs CAN open any more. The timing advance linkage seems to be fully advanced. I'm stumped.

 

[simpleinterest]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

Update: Compression looks fine. 125 in # 1 and 2, 130 in # 3. I tried adjusting the throttle rod more and was able to get the carbs to open up to WOT. But when I put it back in Neutral, the carbs are too far open. Checked for spark using a timing light and grounding the plug to the engine and there was no spark. So I think I will put the throttle problem on hold for a while and focus on the ignition.

 

[bentle]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

Is the tie bar screw tight with the tie bar so that all three carbs open and close simultaneously?
In the pic. Part A should be tight with part B. And all carbs should be working together or at the same time.
If the tie bar screw is loose then little to no acceleration.
(Edit) sorry for the sideways pic.

 

[simpleinterest]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

Yeah, I adjusted all of the carbs this morning and tightened the tie bar.

The no spark problem is solved.... I don't have a safety clip for the kill switch so I bypassed it, thinking that a closed circuit was needed to supply voltage to the ignition. WRONG. After reading through the manual and several posts, I realized that the kill switch actually grounds the magneto, preventing it from generating a spark. Once I disconnected the wires to the kill switch, it started right up.

But I'm still not getting enough range from the throttle and I'm starting to think it IS the cable. Linkage and shifter move freely with linkage and shifter disconnected. With linkage and shifter disconnected, I can move the throttle cable by hand through the sleeve but some times, it takes a bit of effort. With linkage and shifter connected, throttle barely moves at all.

I'm glad she starts but I know that cables can cost a pretty penny.

 

[simpleinterest]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

BTW, where can I find this cable on line? I haven't had much luck so far.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 85 wont start; possible throttle problem

Amazon or this site.E-bay has a ton.
I just bought 4 cables with shipping for $112
http://www.amazon.com/shops Atlantic boat supply
Some people want a lot of money,so look around.
Look for Morse 3300 or Teleflex 33c
On one end is the size embossed in the cable.It might be in inches, maybe feet???