New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

[mnut]

Hello to all here. Nice to visit a site with much help offered by informed boaters. I've been looking for a 17-19ft aluminum open bow boat mostly for fishing. I ran across a very clean 1988 19ft bluefin sportsman with a 1988 85hp Force(non tilt) outboard on it. The motor has not been run in 4 years.I flipped the hood and it is spotless.It's always been garage kept.While on Craigslist for a boat for a while now,I notice that a lot of Force motors are for sale with previous problems,rarely have power trim,and just seem not as desireable as Johnson,Mercury and the Japanese brands. Am I imagining this or what? I'm tempted to buy this Blue fin setup,then people tell me don't get the Force motor as it is a Chrysler and they always break down and have cheap parts. Then they tell me the Blue Fin is an "entry level" boat from a production line and is at the bottom of the list compared to Lund,Sea Nymph,Sylvan,Starcraft. I guess the company selling this combo had almost all the blue fins go out with force motors in an inexpensive package. Sheesh...I'm almost afraid to buy this force motor? I was thinking of buying a boat I don't reallywant with a 60-70hp Johnson or Merc with power trim,sell th boat and put the motor with power trim on this boat and sell the 85Force comes on it even without trying out this force motor. I'm convinced that I must have power trim on a motor over 60hp to raise and lower the motor for launching and loading the boat to clear the bottom. If I keep the force motor,I was thinking of adding a CMC power trim set up. May I have an opinion on that device too,please? Another question,is it true that such a 19ft boat needs at least a 60hp to really move it in case of an approaching storm get away or to water ski? I hope I didn't put this post in the wrong forum but I was going to go on the first forum "general" but noticed "no motor talk there" and my major question is about the Force motor. Thanks in advance for any and all help I can get.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

"My Opinion" Since you're looking at older stuff (like me), the pocketbook reigns supreme. If the motor runs and there are no soft spots on the deck, do it. The search function here is something a wise purchaser would use to answer any ?'s or doubts. Good Luck! Where are you? Additional thought, A power t/t would be a positive thing.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

I've had Forces for over 20 years and have worked on them even longer.
Nothing wrong with Force/Chrysler or Bluefin.
The newer Johnson/Evinrude Mercury or the Jap motors get better mileage.The old ones about the same.
The good thing about the Force is you can fix it yourself in most cases.
Yes add a T/T setup.
They can be bought on E-bay or CL.
Just make sure they don't come from a salt water boat.
Your buying a 20+ year old boat so have someone do a survey or hire a mechanic to go through the motor.
Compression/spark test a MUST!!!!!
If the price is right.BUY!!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

Yes, Force is the direct decendant of Chrysler. Like jerry, I have been wrenching them for --oh, well, since 1967. You do the math-- No there is nothing in particular wrong with them and if well maintained can run just as long or longer than the other more desirable brands.

Because they were "entry level" engines they do have a bad reputation (undeserved) and this is reflected in the price. HOWEVER: There is nothing wrong with saving some money. So, if you find a well maintained and good running engine and if the hull suits your purpose, who cares if iit is entry level? Your object is to have fun. Ultimately, the decision is yours but the old caveat, "let the buyer beware" still applies. Look over the package carefully before committing and try for a test run before buying. At the very least, have the engine started and run in the driveway on muffs. A couple of photos and description posted here for opinions could not hurt either.

 

[Nordin]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

Chrysler/Force are decent engines, as good as Merc, Rude and Johnson from same age. I have worked with these OB and also brands as Merc, OMC, Yamaha, Suzuki and Volvo Penta. You allways have to maintaine an engine otherwise it will breakdown, doesen?t matter if it is a Merc, OMC or Japanese brand.
Force and Chryslers bad reputation came from owners that didn?t maintaine and they "eat" a little more fuel then the others.
Spareparts are still available new factory made, aftermarket or used parts. I live i Sweden Europe and have allways been able to find parts for my engines. (Have at least 15-20 Chrysler/Force engines).
The design is old school but then you know it will work if you maintaine and you can work on it by yourself if you are a little bit mec.skilled and have basictools and some spec.tools.

 

[RRitt]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

if you are good with a wrench and intend to do your own maintenance then, IMO, a good 1988-1990 Force 85HP is the best value you can buy from any brand. It is very dependable and very easy to work on with a huge number of parts derived from industrial standards and automotive engineering. Many times the Force design will accomplish the same function with greater reliability for 1/2 the cost of a mercury because they are using proven standards while the mercury is concerned about making sure the customer must buy genuine mercury parts. The 1970's Evinrudes had the reputation as the commercial choice because they took the most abuse and parts are available decades after the Mercs are NLA. The power is rated at the crankshaft instead of the prop and therefore a chrysler/force has about 15% less power than other outboards with same badge.

However, if you plan on taking your boat to the local marina for service .... stay away from Force. They will give your boat to the new kid who is still learning and charge you full price. You will end up getting the lowest quality of workmanship at the highest price. Unless you know a Force mechanic in advance then taking Force to a marina is a bad value.

 

[mnut]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

Thanks for the opinions so far.
I don't understand what significance a 6 inch "set back" would play if I keep the 85 force and add the CMT trim apparatus? What happens with the performance of the boat due to the added 6 inches that the motor is away from the transom?
I'm also going to ask maybe a "dumb" question...If I cave in sell this 85 Force then buy an evinrude or merc,or japanese motor with factory trim for this boat off of a 16 foot boat...will in most cases the cables from the control box(trim cable too) be long enough to transfer to a 19 foot boat? Never owning a boat with a side console,I don't know if there is any play room on cable length? Most of the better deals on motors with power trim are on the 16 footers on Craiglist.
What is the approximate weight of the 85 HP force motor? Thanks again for all the help!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

85 is about 320#
The cables will usually only fit the brand that there.
I understand some Jap motors use the Morse Red Jacket like the force.Just different connectors.
But the shifters don't usually swap.
Lots of used parts out there.
The 6 in setback will actually make the boat handle a bit better.
Don't know how much you plan on paying for the trim but they are available used.
Stay away from salt water motors.Where are you located? Profile?

 

[mnut]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

What I was asking is if I sold the Force 85. Start fresh with a evinrude,merc or japanese motor with power trim from a 16ft boat? In most or no cases will the cables reach back to fit onto a 19ft boat? I never owned a boat with a side console so I don't know if there is any extra cable behind the sidewall that may extend to reach back further? Are most cables specific to a definate length of boat?
To answer your question,I live in Ohio. Love the walleye fishing here. Mostly reservoir fishing for me but I keep getting told by boaters to get a deep V 19 footer for the extra room as opposed to a 16 footer. This blue fin I'm interested in has a nice wide beam too. I may want to try Lake Erie too but I wouldn't go out 15-18 miles like the 23ft and above boats do. It is nice to only be an hour and a half from its shores. Thanks for the further help!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

Cables are not specific to a boat length, but are determined by the distance between the control box back to the transom, then across to the engine. If it is a fraction of a foot extra, round up to the next foot. Then add 2-3 feet for a loop in the splashwell. It is always better to have cables too long as this causes no problems whereas jury-rigged too short cables will bind and not function correctly. It would be unusual for the cable length on a 16 foot hull to be long enough for a 19 footer BUT: Control cables usually are only 30-40 bucks each.

 

[mnut]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

New question here.. I'm still considering this 85 force motor. Now I've found a 150 Force motor that a guy is letting go of. He bought it as a parts motor. It has power tilt/trim. Don't know what's wrong with it. What I'd like to know is,will the power trim,cables,controls,mounting parts at the motor work on an 85hp? Maybe I'd just make him an offer on the tilt and controls only? Would any of 150hp actual motor parts be of any value to have around for the 85?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: New to site.Help onForce 85hp opinion,CMC power trim, and Blue fin

If it is the same transom length, then the lower unit will fit. If longer, then you will need to find a longer upper part of the two piece drive shaft. The CD boxes and coils will swap but the trigger and stator will not. If it is the early 150 (89-90) then the pistons are the same size and will swap. Flywheel is the same

The power trim should just bolt up to your transom clamps. Cables, control box, transom clamps--all will swap onto your engine. Carbs will not -- even if they are the early ones and the same size as yours. The center carb is jetted differently