120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

[tdvries1]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum (and to boating). Bought a 19' Trophy '87 CC with a 1995 120Hp Force. Run the boat on the water last week and it took me a lot of effort to get it started when the motor is cold. Once it has run, it starts within a second. I used the primer (choke). I lifted the boat due to Irene and while having it around the house over the weekend I changed the sparks plugs. However, same issue. Ordered compression tester and spark tester at Amazon to perform tests later this week.

To me it looks like it doesn't get the right mixture of gas for a cold start (or not enough gas at all). Primer works, I checked. Anybody have some suggestions where to look?

Another thing that bothers me, while on the water we were able to get her to 32-35 Mph WOT on the build in speed meter. But the engine was still at 3,000 rpm (instead of the expected 4,700-5,200). I've a 17" pitch prop. Still not sure if it is the tacho, need to run her at the water with an external tacho connected to be sure. My thought is that it almost impossible to reach 32 Mph at 3,000 rpm with a 17" prop. Suggestions and comments how to investigate are very welcome.

Ton

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

Gotta do a compression/spark test first.It should be close on all cyl.

Check the fuel pump diaphram.
Replace any hoses and the squeezie.In-line connectors can go bad,remove and don't replace.J

After the comp/spark test,post the results.J

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

I would agree with your statement regarding speed/RPM's. Either your tach or your speedometer is not reading correctly.

 

[tdvries1]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

Thanks jerryjerry05 and pnwboat. Amazon just started shipping my compression test tool (ordered a week ago!) and the timer light and spark tester. Hope it will arrive this week, so I can do some serious testing before the boat is going back to the marina this weekend.
Ton

 

[bentle]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

The more pich the less rpms on tack. Its like putting it in over drive with a 17 pich or greater. You still get good speed but less rpms. Make sense?

 

[tdvries1]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

Hi, did the compression test this evening: 125-130-145-145. Did a spark test and all 4 showed good spark (in the tester). Also changed the fuel lines and the water separator. Checked the timing and adjusted it at cracking speed (WOT) to 32 degree. Also checked 0 degree with the pointer at TDC. Ordered the a new diagram for the fuel pump at boat.com today.

Tomorrow I'll adjust the carburetors to the ignition timing and will run some sea foam through the carburetors (any suggestions how to? Should I spray it into the carburetors, or just mix it with the fuel?). After the YouTube videos i'm a little hesitant to do this, given the amount of smoke. Since it needs to run full throttle for a while, I think I need to do this on the water.

After this, I can only think of rebuilding carbs..... Did I miss anything?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

Take the fuel pump apart.See what the diaphram looks like.
Good comp/fuel/spark.
There could be a blockage in the fuel system.Replace all hoses and squeezie.Any in-line connectors/ REmove and don't replace.
The tank vent could be clogged.Carbs dirty.Reeds bent/broken.
No power after 3000-4000 could be a bad stator. outboardignition.com has test procedures for the stator trigger.
Top of the Force section,is a thread#1 and it has a sticky from FrankA.Called a linc and sinc.Do that too.J

 

[jiffyboat]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

125 psi and 145psi... 20psi difference, I think thats to much and the motor is hard to start like that, usually you have to move the control forward to acceleration to make it start, and when it does.. it should shake a lot like running rough and is hard to keep it in idle, unless the rpm are high also.. also when you say ...it took me a lot of effort to get it started when the motor is cold.... what thats means ...that the motor cranks slow...or you have to crank it several times to make start?... if its the first ..I would try another battery , if its the second...after priming ..disconnect the small hose that goes from the choke solenoid to the intake and them push the choke in the ignition key and see if fuel comes out of the hose...if it doesn't there is a problem with the solenoid or the circuit ...and it will be hard to start when could

 

[tdvries1]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

I'm going to do a decarb over the weekend, using Seafoam. Then I will adjust according to FranksA's linc and sync. My new diaphram will arrive Friday, so I'll install that one too.
Choke (primer) is working okay. Changed the squeezie, the water separator/filter and the fuel lines as well. Guess what? It started (after 3 x 4 sec. primer) right away....

I'll do another compression check after the decarb and measure the speed/rpm with gps/external tacho. Will post back after the weekend. Thanks so far for all the advice and suggestion.

 

[tdvries1]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

Short status update: pulled the boat in the water on Saturday morning. Started easy like a new one, just 2 x 4 sec. primer and it fired right up! Then the nighmare started: when I pulled the engine into reverse there was a lot of grinding noise and no movement!
Pulled the boat back on the trailer, removed the lower unit and the clutch and reverse gear are fairly damaged. Both have about 45 degree angles where they supposed to touch each other.....

Checking on inet, I found that both gear and clutch would be around 350 bucks... oeps.... So i bougt a dremel and straighend them both. I know this would probably mean the points of contact are not equal anymore, meaning one ot two will puck the power, instead of equally diverted accross the three contact points, but for the reverse which is used less intensively, I would give it a try and see how it works out, before spending the 350 bucks on two new gears....

I think the reson for this is a bended pin that hold teh clutch in place. It causes the clutch to be shifted just about 2 mm, meaning the clutch only touches the reverse for 50% when engaged. Ordered a new pin for 2 bucks....
I hope to be back on the water next week, so I can adjust the engine.

Feel free to comment on my 'Dremel' repair....

 

[tdvries1]

Re: 120Hp Force 1995 - slow starter

Quick update: re-assembled the lower unit yesterday. filled it up with new oil and, weather permitting, will take it out on the water this weekend. Still need to do the decarb, adjust the idle speed which is now a little high and might have caused problems getting it in reverse especially combined with the slightly bend pin, and see if I can get to at least 5000 rpm WOT using my separate rpm meter. I might still have to do the diaphragm replacement, but I want to do the decarb with Seafoam first.

Hope this all works out, really want the boat running reliable and out for fishing....