1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

[tjkeller]

Hello,
I have a 1975 Chrylser 75hp that I am trying to figure out Tilt/Trim wiring.
This is not original to the boat so I'm pretty much on my own.
My tilt motor has THREE wires. I have wired directly to the battery but wires
get hot. ALSO, when operating it smokes the ground wire on the Outboard
Ground wire attached to the Outboard solenoid.

I've searched this site with not much luck but I basically have two questions.

-It would seem I need to use either relays or solenoid for my Tilt/Trim to stop
the heating of the wires but WHICH is better or WHAT's the difference btwn
solenoid vs relay...also would I need One or Two?

-WHY would direct connection smoke the wire on the outboard??? Will the installation
of solenoid or relay stop this? To test run my motor I had to use separate batteries
but would like to just use one but obviously I don't want the tilt/trim to burn up
my outboard.

THANKS for the help!!!

Travis

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

NO NO NO! NEVER connect both wires of a two wire system to the battery. These two wire motors are meant to run in two directions and the wires are both connected to the armature. You need to get two 5 pin relays and a single pole MOM switch. NO solenoids.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

post a picture of your motor. some 3w motors ground through the frame and would be consistent with your description. A sure giveaway on a roundbody 3w motor is two large screws recessed flush into the sides of motor. 2w motors do not need field frame screws because they use perma-magnets. You can also use an ohmeter to check if there is any continuity between wires and frame. a 2w motor is isolated ground and you should never read any connection between motor frame and blue/green wires. a 3w motor uses common ground and you will get a reading between ground and blue and green.

 

[tjkeller]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

Thanks for the reply Frank.

I did not run BOTH wires to the battery ...LOL!
I misstated in my original post...I actually have a THREE-wire system. (blk,blu,grn)
I am using a single pole MOM switch but I did not get any relays with my system.
I am using 10ga wire and ran a positive from batt to switch. The system operates
fine other than heating the wires and IDK why it smokes my outboard ground wire.
I have two other boats, not Chrysler, that use solenoids not relays on tilt/trim.
I know Chrysler used relays although I'm uncertain if they did on one this old of unit.
But the real question is WHAT difference would it make to run solenoid vs relay?

Thanks,
Travis

<edit>
RRitt, thanks for the reply. Looks like we posted at almost the same time. My error of posting
two wires caused confusion and I have edited my original post. With my three wire system,
it would seem by your description I have 3w as I do have the two large screws flush on the motor.

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

i belive this is the 3 pump wiring system your talking about, shows a solenoid and relay. hope it can help, save it, open in paint and zoom in if ya cant see it

 

[tjkeller]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

WOW, Thanks for the reply WJM...that's a new one on me...a system w/solenoid AND two relays.
I sure appreciate you digging that up and posting/sharing but I am hoping I don't have to go to that extent.
My main question was What diff would it make to use a solenoid vs relay. I've had a couple mechanics tell me
to just use an older version ford solenoid. One of those guys is a hobbyist to re-building boats.
I certainly hope I don't need two relays AND a solenoid but that makes me wonder if that is why the ground
on my outboard solenoid smokes when tilt/trim is hooked to the same battery?

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

3 wire motors are reversed by switching the power on to only the blue or green wire (see pic in previous post the power trim motor, black wire goes to negative, blue (represented by L in the pic ) is the down relay green is the up relay. two solenoids one of each positive motor wire. they hold the wire blue or green open from the battery when they are not activated. when the up solenoid is activated it holds the blue trim motor lead to positive, the black wire is already ground current flows through the positive terminal to the up solenoid to the trim motor. relays have a amp rating in them almost like a fuse only allows a certain amount of current through them and im pretty sure they hold your system to the ground. the wire is prob not a good enough grade to allow the amprage that is passing through from using the system without relays and is smoking. its really recomended to use both the wirings alot easier then it looks and the solenoid + relay + inline fuse combo = cheaper then another trim motor

 

[tjkeller]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

Thanks again WJM.
The wire that is smoking is on the solenoid on my outboard motor...it's the starter solenoid for the outboard
and has nothing to do with the tilt/trim but if I connect tilt/trim via the same battery, the starter solenoid
ground wire on my outboard smokes when I run tilt/trim. If I use a separate battery just for tilt/trim, the
system works fine other than the heavy load on the wires w/o relays or solenoid.

On my mercruiser, there is just one solenoid for tilt/trim which is connected to blue. Green has no relay or solenoid.
It seems this is a fairly common setup for tilt/trim which I was wondering if would work on this Chrysler system.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

force did not use solenoids or relays on 3w systems. they ran straight from switch. You can install either solenoids or relays to support 3w operation. A relay is actually a fancier version of a solenoid. They manufacture standardized relays by the millions and that drives price way down. Solenoids are still made a few at a time and very pricey by comparison. just pull ground off center post so that the relay only switches positive. wallah! solenoid!

you can even just buy a standard 2w wiring harness and clip off the correct lead.
as regards trim ground. make sure your battery negative is very solid and use engine block or go directly to battery. 3w trim can draw a lot of amps and it needs very clean & secure connections.

 

[tjkeller]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

Thanks for the reply RRitt,

At this point I am quite perplexed. I did some online research and found that Chrysler lists a solenoid SW295
that is used both for Starter AND for Tilt/Trim. I have not found a wiring diagram other than what
WJM posted here which shows 2 relays and a solenoid. I have a solenoid which I hooked up but it did
not resolve my problem.

TWO problems I have is HOT Wires and Outboard Motor Ground Wire is burning up.
The MAIN problem is when taking motor DOWN...this is what smokes the Outboard's Ground and
melted the connector on the wire harness. Taking the motor UP heats the Blue wires to but not to
the degree that it's melting anything.

The wire on the Outboard Motor that is burning up is a Ground Wire that goes from the base of the
Outboard Motor's Starter Solenoid to the Wire Terminal Block on the motor. Again, this only happens
when tilting DOWN.

According to your posts this appears to be the 3w tilt motor but it will NOT work without the ground
wire grounded.

I have attached a few pics to show Tilt Motor, 3-Wire w/Melted Connector, and Wire Terminal Block
on Outboard Motor showing smoked/burned wire from starter solenoid to terminal block.

Any further insight would be GREATLY appreciated. I just need to stop the HEAT and not smoke my
outboard motor.

Regards,
Travis

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

the later models did. the pic i posted is straight from the force shop manual. the only ones with out relays or solenoids were the very early models

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

The Chrysler relay is probably either for starter or for inboard. Your motor has an internal short and needs to be rebuilt.

 

[tjkeller]

Re: 1975 Chrysler Tilt Wiring Question

The Chrysler relay is probably either for starter or for inboard. Your motor has an internal short and needs to be rebuilt.

RRitt, you were exactly correct. I took the motor apart and found a BAD soldering job.
I thoroughly cleaned the inside of the motor and re-soldered the bad connection.
After re-installing and running several times up and down non-stop, I have absolutely
NO HEAT and am no longer smoking the ground wire on the outboard motor.

THANKS for the help guys!!!