1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

[Robert D]

Yes, getting the boat ready......long story short......new battery, in a hurry, red plastic protective cap over a battery terminal...assumed it was positive and didn't look closer....hooked it up in reverse. Damn. Voltage regulator is cooked. Actually swelled up and split open. Smells pretty bad, too. New regulator, and still no spark at any cylinder.

Any knowledgeable opinions out there? Did I completely toast the Prestolite CDI system? Maybe the stator, the pick up, the 3 CDI units and maybe even the coils? That would have to be in excess of $1400 for new stuff. Am I missing anything obvious before I tear into it or junk it out for parts? Marine radio was spared by a fuse, fish finder still working okay and all gauges. Cranks over normal, just zero spark. 2 circuit breakers in the cowl are fine....any thoughts????

 

[Lyle29464]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

The only way to test everything is a shop that has the equipment.

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

That's what I was afraid of.....I'm expecting a lot of $$$$ just to troubleshoot it! I think tomorrow I'll pull the flywheel and see if any wires on the stator look burned. I think I have what's needed to check the stator resistance and the coils.....

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Just thinking out loud here: Since the ignition system is completely separate from the charging system EXCEPT for grounding, If it were my engine, I would get --beg, borrow, steal-- one (new-used) CD box and test if it gave spark.

My reasoning is that to stop the engine with a prestolite ignition, you ground the CD boxes. Attaching the battery in reverse polarity with the switch off would put positive voltage through the ground wire and possible blow a transistor. If you now get spark on those cylinders, then buy three CD boxes.
12 volts revers polarity should not bother the stator nor the coils.
That's all I can offer

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Okay, I picked up 3 CDI units off E-bay for $200, and a stator & trigger assembly for around $50 each with shipping.....I figured the price was a steal, and even if mine test out okay when I get them off, I'll have a spare.

The ignition key did get turned on for about 5 seconds, when I immediately noticed the voltmeter doing nothing. (It was a new battery and waiting to see the voltage reading.....) I'll be pillung the flywheel here shortly...to take a look.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

There is no need to pull the flywheel to check the stator and trigger module. Simply disconnect the wires one pair at a time and check for resistance with an ohmmeter. 0 ohms means a burned and open circuit, infinite ohms means a direct short. Battery charging circuit is low resistance and ignition is high resistance--search other posts to see what the actual numbers are.

Save yourself some time and first meter the parts. Then, if all is well, install the CD boxes and try to start. If the parts show defective, then pull the flywheel and replace them.

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Yes, will do. I tried to pull the flywheel as I have all the various pullers available, etc, etc. Used my metal lathe to make a perfect fitting end for the puller. I have the flywheel with the 3 holes tapped into it for a puller, and I actually snapped a grade 8 bolt off trying to get the thing pulled. Had a lot of torque on it, applied some heat and penetrating oil......damn thing wouldn't budge.

Hopefully the stator and trigger test out okay......taking a break and I'll check them....

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Update:
Stator and trigger test out OK. Well, using my digital voltmeter/ohm meter, the stator registered .3 Kilo ohms resistance. From what I'm reading in my manual, that's a bit high, but it also says any resistance indicates it is probably fine. It's not shorted out, which is good. That flywheel would be a major pain.

Only problem is that someone has been in there before, (as in the previous owner.) The vertical bus bar where the six wires from the trigger attach had the wires neatly tagged with numbers 1 through 6. I noted that each power pack is connected with 2 wires. Counting from the bottom screw as #1, one power pack was connected to terminals 1 and 2, next power pack to 3 and 4, next power pack to 5 and 6. The problem is that all the pick up wires were connected in sequence, except for the one tagged #4. It was connected to terminal #6. (Yes, 2 wires from pick up on the same terminal.) Any clue what's going on here? Did someone bypass a dead component somehow? It seems to me this would simply send a double trigger pulse to the 3rd power pack?

Tested all 5 coils, all test out okay.....that saves some dollars.

I have the 3 power packs coming.....should be here by next weekend......hopefully that does the trick. Just wondering if I should wire the pick up the way it was, with #4 joining the #6 wire at the same terminal...or connect it the way it's labeled?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Is it the trigger or the stator? Trigger will have 10 wires, two for each cylinder. Stator has 6 wires, three pairs, two to charge each box. Each CD box is split into two different sides to service one cylinder each. One side uses the AC from one lead and the other side uses the AC from the other lead. Problem is each box services two cylinders except for one which only services one cylinder. In your case, sounds like #3 and 4. Since the wires are a pair and you don't want to charge the unused side of the single cylinder box (#4), yet, you want to terminate the ac lead, two wires are connected to the same terminal on one pair of cylinders (4 and 6). They do the same thing on 3 cylinder engines with two CD boxes. Did I make sense? Was it a clear explanation?

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Yes, makes sense.....and I realized I made an error above! I have the 2 wires coming down the port side to the rectifier/regulator....I assumed these were simply the stator for charging. (Those are okay.) Then there's the 6 wires coming down the starboard side of the engine to the bus bar, connected to the 3 CDi boxes. I must be tired......I assumed those were the trigger wires. If those are also the stator wires supplying power, then the stator would have 8 wires total, or do we have 2stators under that flywheel plus a trigger assembly? As I take a second look and beat my head against the wall for missing the obvious, the harness with the small wires is obviously the trigger wires. (I must be tired....can't believe I missed that!) I'll go check them.

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Trigger resistance test puts every pair of wires between 51.5 and 52, right within specs. (That's a relief!)

The coils: Secondary resistance between the primary wire and the plug lead is normal, but I can't get a good steady reading for the primary resistance between the primary wire and ground. Briefly it will show .3 to .5 ohms, then 0.00

Not sure if it's a connection issue, i.e. corrosion.....but I decided to switch to continuity test and sure enough, every coil shows continuity across the primary to ground. I'm going to go clean some connectors and try again, but I'm starting to think I fried all 5 coils. Is that possible with the reverse polarity issue??

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Cleaned the connections on the coil primary wire connector.......black connector from meter to ground, red to primary wire......on my digital meter, on ohms, it reads 0.00. Switch to continuity check, and it buzzes signaling continuity, but it also reads a steady .3 ohms on each one, which is what the specs call for. I'm thinking it's a thing with my meter, in that it only reads such small increments while on the continuity setting? "Maybe" the coils are okay. My meter might be messed up a little. (It's an old Radio Shack digital meter.)

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

One more note.....studying the wiring diagram with a magnifying glass, yes, it does show the wire #4 going to the same connector as wire #6 on the vertical bus connecting the stator wires The same side of the CDI box that isn't used, has 2 wires dead ended on the longer bus with nothing connected......so yes, the middle power pack is only 'half used.' Logic tells me I could probably get spark to one plug using that half of the power pack if I rewire the connections.....but I'm worn out for today, will wait for the new CDI units to come

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

New multimeter shows 0.00 on coil primary resistance test....shorted out on every coil it seems. Reverse polarity sent positive current through ground, and fried every coil? (& probably the 3 CDI boxes.....) Expensive experience.....5 coils coming as well.

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

To further complicate the issue, I was researching outboard coil testing on the web, and came across this:

"The primary DC resistance of these coils generally is less than one (1) OHM. If a reading resembling a short is obtained, this would be acceptable."

I'm just going to have to replace the CDI units and try that first...then swap out the coils if necessary. It seems you can't accurately test for primary resistance!

 

[Lyle29464]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

0 ohms means a burned and open circuit, infinite ohms means a direct short.

ok Frank, No posting after happy hour.

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

Checked someone elses coils on the exact same year of outboard.....and they all read .3 ohms on the primary.....so all my coils are definitely toasted :-(
I think it's safe to assume then that the CDI boxes are gone as well. Have some used ones coming anyway. Should be here Friday.

 

[Robert D]

Re: 1990 Force 150, battery shorted out....no ignition :-(

EXPENSIVE mistake. Bought 3 power packs off Ebay, but they showed up and were not even close to the photo. Mismatched set, different wire colors on each one. Returned them, and have bitten the bullet ($600) and have 3 new ones arriving June 2nd. Everything else tests out okay at this point. Have the new coils installed, just waiting for the CDI boxes.

Question: I'm not too excited about all that wiring running between the engine and CDI boxes/Coils/Bus connection. Has anyone rerouted them to the outside of the bracket, to keep them away from engine heat, etc? It just seems logical to me. Might not look at 'pretty' as th efactory layout, but seems like it would be safer?

 

[JWitt]

Hey! Sorry for adding to an old post.
Did it all work out for you with the new CD's and coils?

 

[GA_Boater]

Hey! Sorry for adding to an old post.
Did it all work out for you with the new CD's and coils?

After no posts by the OP for more than 6 years, do you really think he's coming back to tell you?

Closed.