89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

[camawelander]

Hi,
My Problem:
Motor (89 force 35) ran great yesterday. Started up nicely 30 - 40 times fishing around the lake. On the last 2 starts I noticed some hesitation from the "starter". Normally I turn the ignition and the starter will spin the flywheel until the motor starts. Sounds perfect. These last few times the starter would turn the flywheel, and then hesitate half a second, and then the motor would finally fire up. Felt like maybe a low battery.....So I charged the battery to full.

Now I turn the ignition to start and I get nothing. If I push the key in for choke, the carb will flap closed, so I know that I am getting power to the system. I have checked and cleaned all of my electrical connections.

(note-the motor is well taken care of, very clean- new impeller-new plugs- always fresh fuel, the flywheel will turn the prop when engaged so there has been no overheat seizure...)

My guess is the starter solenoid, any other guesses?

Does anyone have a part number / good source that I can cross reference what I have found online so far?

Thanks

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

Test your starter.

Barrel it in water incase it starts.

Turn the ignition on. Take a jumper wire and touch the wire from the positive battery terminial, or on the side of the solenoid. Then touch the wire on the opposite side of the solenoid or directly on the starter if you can see the wire thats bolted on.

If it turns over normal then your solenoid is is probably shot. Have someone bump the key and listen to the solenoid while you do this.. If you hear a slight thumping, then it's more then likey shot.

I dont know about the '89s, but there may be a circuit breaker that is faulty on the ignition.

As for replacement. I have a1970 chrysler. A solenoid was very expensive for this motor. I took it down to napa and had them match one up for me. Most of the time all you need to know is the voltage and if it's a constant solenoid. They are nothing more then a switch.

 

[camawelander]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

Thanks-
OK - the revealing dumb questions

1. If the motor starts with the jump wire...how do you stop the motor?
Turn the ignition to off?

2. I like the Napa idea...if I bring in the current solenoid, will they be able to tell what I need to replace it? What is the correct voltage (i run off of 1 marine battery)?...12v? Is it a constant solenoid?

thx.

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

If the motor starts up,, Yup, you'lll just turn the key off..
As for testing, no they dont test those.. At least not that I know of.. Will they be able to tell which solenoid.. They should be able to just by looking in the book for solenoids.. We have a gal at one of our stores that doesn't need a book. Just went in back and grabbed one and said, here's out cheapest one. this will work.. Looks the same too.

on the old cars that's how we tested the solenoid.
Turn key on, (put your engine leg in water)
Jump wire from positive terminal of solenoid, to little prong. If engine turns over ans starts. then you have an ignitions issue
If nothing happened. Then jump wire from positive wire on solenoid to starter cable. If engine started, Solenoid was bad. 5 minutes. On an outboard. less then 2.

Dont bolt the wire up.. Just get some heavy gauge wire, strip the ends and touch the terminals. it should crank over. (Jumping the starter or solenoid)

More then likely you have a 12v battery, I havent heard of any 6v marine batteries.
So you would have a 12v Solenoid.
As for constant or not? That I don't know..
Mine is not. Meaning, the only thing my solenoid is used for is turning the starter. Nothing else.

A way you can tell is look at the terminals on the solenoid. (the little terminals.) anything on them? If you only have 1-2 wires, follow those back and see if they only go to the neutral safety switch. If that's all. then you do not have a constant solenoid.

I paid 23 bucks for mine. Marine book at Napa they had to order at 70 bucks. So if you have just a standard solenoid, there really isn't a need to spend the big bucks on the marine solenoid. Unless you run without the cowl on.

 

[camawelander]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

Thanks.
Here is a photo (if it loads) of the wires that are attached to the solenoid.

Looks like there are 3.

Yellow - Ignition
Green - Choke
Black - Ground

would you guess constant or non-constant?

thx.

 

[camawelander]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

Just attempted the "jump" of the solenoid. No result. Nothing happening at the starter...

Also, when the ignition is turned there is a strong audible click is heard in the solenoid...I am guessing that the solenoid is fine.

Now I am thinking the starter. Will a starter fail like I described above?
Just stop working at all?

Anyone have a good starter replacement source?

thx!

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

Yes starter will and fail as described.

Just to be sure when you jump the starter. Make sure you are jumping from the correct pole. The 2 red wires on your solenoid. One goes to the starter and one goes to the battery..

basically with your solenoid. If you take a screwdrive and hold the handle end. if cross both big terminals. The starter should crank.

If it does not, then your starter is at fault.
In that instance, it's time to either replace the starter, or tear it apart and look at the armature and brushes. You could simply need brushes in the starter.

 

[camawelander]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

Thanks.

I am moving on to taking apart the starter.

Is there a way to test these starters? I called NAPA and they said that I needed to goto a specialty shop for the test...does that sound correct? I was thinking Autozone or someplace similar might be able to do it.

Any idea about finding replacement brushes?

thx.

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

A place like autozone, advance or Oreilys should be able to test it..

Do you have jumper cables?
Test it like we used to test starters.

You can leave it on your boat if you want to. Just disconnect the starter wire on the starter itself.

Pull your car/truck by the boat motor.

Ground wire: clamp it on the side of the starter, Then ground on battery. Clip positive to the Positive terminal on your battery.

Then take the other positive jumper cable and touch the terminal to the starter. it should crank your boat motor.

If you have the starter out of the boat already, same applies to hooking it up. except you have to hold the starter down. 2nd person helps here.

As for the brushes. Any marine place, or even Napa should be able to get them or have them. Napa has a good selection of marine parts.

Before you do buy the brushes, you will need to see if thats the problem.
A disassemble will tell that story.
Here's a post of what it may look like
http://forums.iboats.com/showpost.php?p=2733744&postcount=3

 

[camawelander]

Re: 89 Force 35 - Solenoid Part #?

Well,
I have tested the solenoid = good

I have tested the starter = good

I am thinking that my battery set up my be needing improvement.

I managed to get the motor to turn over and start, but it barely does...

I tried both my big (600 cold crank, 750 marine crank) and small(550 Cold crank, 700 marine crank) "deep cycle" batteries...the big battery managed to get the motor turned over, just barely. It will turn it a little, then hesitate, then turn it just enough to start it up.

I have been using the same "deep cycle marine" battery (550 cold crank, 700 marine crank) to start the boat for the last two years, no problems until now.

Question:
Should I be using a different type of battery for the dedicated starter battery?
What is most recommended?

Thanks