1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

[Osage76]

So I was running my outboard in the driveway at idle speed. I had the lower unit submerged in a container of water that was supplied by a running garden hose. I watched it run with out issue for 20 minutes. Then nature called and I went inside for maybe 10-15 minutes. When I came back outside the engine was off and the overheat alarm was screaming. You guessed it, the water hose somehow came out starving the engine of water.

So the engine overheated and stalled. the head got very hot and melted the pee tube that the water comes out of at the thermostat. and the stickers turned from white to brown so clearly it got very hot.

Obviously I will need a new water impeller, question is, have I done permanent damage to the engine?.. (cylinders, heads, etc...)
The engine cranks but I havent tried to run it:
Compression results
75psi
87psi
100psi

I dont have before numbers but it ran great before thishappend.

I pulled the head hoping the head is warped or maybe the gasket?
The gasket is intact but the cylinder walls are all a little rough on the same spot in all three cylinders at the 7 or 8 o'clock position.

I called a couple repair joints but one wanted 250 just to look at it the other wanted to replace the crankshaft and bearings sight unseen and yet a third tried to sell me a recently reconditiond inside and out wellcraft for 4500...( I am considering the wellcraft ;-) Anyway. What to do about this outboard???/

 

[Newbie@boats]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

On my 125HP Force, it over heated one time this season while I was out.

I didnt have an alarm, I just noticed no water coming out, then the motor just shut off.

When I got close to it man was it hot.

Anyways, I did the impeller, and a compression check and everything checked out good.

Try to do the same and see what happens. Could have lucked out like me.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

No automatic shut off.It got so hot it siezed/shut off.
Remove the plugs and spray WD-40 in the holes and try to turn it over.
If it turns over do a compression test.If it tests ok then you got very lucky. Post your results.
Oh yea you will need a new impeller.The old one has probably melted and ruined the seals in the pump housing.Good luck.J

 

[Newbie@boats]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

How do we know it seized up?

He never said if it turned over or anything...after

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

The engine cranks but I havent tried to run it:
Compression results
75psi
87psi
100psi

I dont have before numbers but it ran great before thishappend.

I pulled the head hoping the head is warped or maybe the gasket?
The gasket is intact but the cylinder walls are all a little rough on the same spot in all three cylinders at the 7 or 8 o'clock position.

 

[Newbie@boats]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

It should tell you if you warped the cylinder head.

Let us know what your numbers are!

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Compression results
75psi
87psi
100psi

I pulled the head hoping the head is warped or maybe the gasket?
The gasket is intact but the cylinder walls are all a little rough on the same spot in all three cylinders at the 7 or 8 o'clock position.

I called a couple repair joints but one wanted 250 just to look at it the other wanted to replace the crankshaft and bearings sight unseen and yet a third tried to sell me a recently reconditiond inside and out wellcraft for 4500...( I am considering the wellcraft ;-) Anyway. What to do about this outboard???/

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Take the head off and see what the damage is inside.Post some pics.It could be warped it could be just a gasket.
N.I never critisize other peoples posts this from practical experience.J

 

[moparman]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Newbie, it got hot enough to either seize or almost seize, that's why the motor stopped!!! Unless some good neighbor saw what happened and shut it off and turned the key back on[don't think this happened] . The motor can get hot enough to expand the piston to the point that it drags the motor down [while at idle] and it not technically be seized, but for all intents and purpose it might as well be ,cause it got HOT is the end result. Don't pick hairs when some body is trying to help some one else out , if you don't want to take his advice ,fine ,don't ,but let him try to help out the other man that he was posting to on the first place with out arguing . J-J has posted enough good advice over the years, that I listen to him and others that will spend their time to help others out with their voice of experience . Sorry about the rant but come on people. My two cents worth

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Can we get back to my outboard?
Another possible concern is could it have gotten so hot it damaged the stator or the trigger? The gasket looks in good shape but the compression test is another story... Whats going on that I cant see?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Post a few pics of the pistons and cylinders.You have a straight edge or something to see if the head is warped?Usually a window will work.
You could have melted the material in the head gasket.
It could have gotten so hot the gasket seal could have broken loose.
The only way without taking it apart is another gasket and a new compression test. PICS??? J

 

[john from md]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Either use a hone and hone the cylinder wall ( buy at pep boys) or, in a pinch, get 400 wet or dry paper, coat with oil and rub rough spots in cylinder.

Replace head gasket and torque properly. Clean out any rubber from water pump housing and replace impeller.

Don't spray WD40 in the cylinders. It is a water displacement film and has little lubricant value. When the carrier dries, it actually becomes a varnish.
Spray some 2 stroke oil into the cylinders and pull the flywheel through by hand with the plugs removed. If you don,t feel any problems, go ahead and motor it with the starter pull the kill laynard to keep the CDI modules from burning up.

If it motors ok, check the compression. If good, record the numbers and go ahead and start the engine. Let it idle for a while and see if any leaks develop. If ok, take to the lake and run it for an hour or two varying the speed to reset the rings.

When you get back, check the compression and, when the engine cools, retorqure the head.

Regards,

John

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Either use a hone and hone the cylinder wall ( buy at pep boys) or, in a pinch, get 400 wet or dry paper, coat with oil and rub rough spots in cylinder.

Replace head gasket and torque properly. Clean out any rubber from water pump housing and replace impeller.

Don't spray WD40 in the cylinders. It is a water displacement film and has little lubricant value. When the carrier dries, it actually becomes a varnish.
Spray some 2 stroke oil into the cylinders and pull the flywheel through by hand with the plugs removed. If you don,t feel any problems, go ahead and motor it with the starter pull the kill laynard to keep the CDI modules from burning up.

If it motors ok, check the compression. If good, record the numbers and go ahead and start the engine. Let it idle for a while and see if any leaks develop. If ok, take to the lake and run it for an hour or two varying the speed to reset the rings.

When you get back, check the compression and, when the engine cools, retorqure the head.

Regards,

John

John, Thank you for the sane and sound advice. I do not have a pep boys so if you can recommend a hone by brand or part # so I can order from the internet. 1 follow up question regarding the rings which are presumably what scrached the cylinder walls.. Wouldnt this suggest they are damaged? If so wouldnt they either continue to scratch the walls or break apart and blow the head? Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Here are the pics of the head and gasket. Notice the damage at the bottom of #2
I will post pics of cylinder walls tomorrow.

The gasket is intact but the cylinder walls are all a little rough on the same spot in all three cylinders at the 7 or 8 o'clock position.

I spoke with a friend who looked at the head which seems fine except for some marks at the bottom of #2 and he suggested I pull the block, machine shop the cylinders and replace the pistons and bearings. HE said that if there is any thing on the cylinder wall other than smooth that the rings have damage and must be replaced or they will eventually blow the block when they fall apart. I was wondering how to evaluate the cylinder to see if honing would work, if I do need to replace the rings or pistons, or if I need a total rebuild with a machined block new bearings etc... Anyway. What to do about this outboard???/

 

[john from md]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Without seeing the clylinder pics, the head pics don't telll me too much. Was the metal of the head gasket damaged in the area where the head is damaged?

Take some pics of any damage on the pistons also.

In my experience with two stroke and four stroke engines, if they overheat at idle, the engine parts expand and slowly sieze. While the damage may be enough to lessen the overall life of the engine, it usually is not enough to keep the engine from being operated. It is a completely differnt story if the engine is operating at high rpm when it siezes up!

You can have the head bored, replace pistons, bearings et al and the engine willl probably last 25 years. It will also be very expensive, to the tune of maybe you wanting to buy a new engine.

When I see the pics of the cylinders and pistons I'll know more.

John

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Right now I have in my driveway a Chrysler 75 that was overheated so badly that the white head paint was turned black before it finally stalled. Upon checking the compression, two cylinders were low.

HOWEVER: Upon removing the head I noticed that most of the bolts were loose. Inspecting the gasket, I could see that it was still serviceable and the cylinder liners, while a bit discolored, were not scored. So, I re-torqued the head bolts, lubricated the cylinders and the compression came up.


Overheating is not necessarily the death knell for an engine.

Also, a cylinder CAN be lightly scored and still deliver adequate compression--however, without seeing photos, I can not comment on your engine's condition.

Contrary to John, I use WD 40 on everything. However, I do not use it as a lubricant. It is too "thin" I use it to free things up and then follow with regular TCW oil

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Here are the cylinder pics. Thanks to everyone for there continued assistance.

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

More cylinder pics

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

The last 5.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Those pistons look like they are already bored .30thou over.You might not want to punch them again.You might get away with a hone and new rings,J