1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

[Llunker]

Hello to everyone,

First off i have ordered a manuel from ebay (seloc) on my motor so i can become more familiar with my motor. This is a new to me boat and I want to do most of the work on it myself. I have watched many videos on repairs and i think i am pretty handy to fix just about anything. My experience level as a mechanic is beginner level--but thats not to say i can't do it.

Secondly, i have orderd gear case oil, lubricants, the correct 4 spark plugs, I am wanting to order a water pump kit(or do i just need the impeller?) and thermostat as I dont know when the last time they were changed or even looked at. I think I am able to accomplish many of the minor items of a motor such as Carb, fuel pump, changing the lower units oil, spark plugs, etc....

Now as far as she runs now well I can say she runs pretty well at WOT and most of the time at idle speeds. But I do notice from time to time not often that the idle is just not right. Like the carbs need a slight adjustment or something. Sometimes when placing the motor into gear it will die. then I have to restart at 3/4 neutral throttle to get her reved back up and try to gear forward again. Something is just not right...I just can't place my finger on it. I have not attempted anything yet. I have ordered alot of things and wanted to know if I should do a re-build on carbs or simply make an adjustment and add spark plugs. I plan on doing a compression check as well.

Any Ideas why the motor dies when going into gear?

Thanks to all for any help as i start my project.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

Before going bonkers, go to the FAQ and look for how to decarbonize your engine. Do a good decarbon job, letting it sit as long as possible between treatments. Then take it out and blow the carbon out at WOT.

Next, add a new set of plugs. If it doesn't idle now, we can get into troubleshooting. However, many owners don't decarbonized their engines and they suffer poor low speed performance from it.

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

I knew John would be on here to help with the forces. Thanks again John for you help. I will do just that first. Thats why i came here hoping you would answer my questions. I have read so many of your posts i could go bonkers --but you sure know this engine like the back of your hand.

SO run it wot for awhile first after decarbonizing and then put in new plugs? no adjustments just yet..will let you know the results John MD--is the MD stand for Medical doctor?

HAHA

thanks John--sure did need to see you here.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

You got it. Clean and run first, replace plugs and then see how she acts. No sense spending money when you don't have to.

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

Cant find anything under the FAQ section--which seems to be a section for searches? but i just did read about Mercury "QuickClean" in the gas, instead, there is no need to use the Quicksilver or mercury Power Tune. And to run it about every 4th tank full? what do you think john?

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

oops i think i finally found it.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158076

what are your product suggestions --seafoam? Mercury power tune? combinations ?

Let me know John

Thanks bud

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

I find that Seafoam works well and is easily obtainable at auto stores.

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

John,

Can i do this procedure on the muffs ? would like to do this at home if at all possible. if not i will take her to the lake.

Let me know

Llunker

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

You can as long as your neighbors will tolerate the smoke.

I do it on the muffs ( I live in the woods) using fast idle. I also let the last treatment sit overnight. The next day I taker her to the bay and blow the carbon out. The compression on my '85 '85hp has stayed at 150 psi.

Regards,

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

John,

your are a great asset to the community here--you seem to know everything about these type motors.

I noticed on the fuel line there are some funny looking metal clamps? almost like they are pinched. Are these easy enough to come off with a screwdriver or something. Are they re-useable once off?

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

Those metal bands are production clamps. They are easier to install while manufacturing the line than the screw type clamps.

Just cut the tab end with a pair of dykes and replace them with good stainless steel screw clamps that you can get from Westmarine. If you don't have a Westmarine close by, you can get galvenized clamps at regular auto stores.

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

John--quick update,

I bought a remote starter and a compression gauge. Checked compression from the top down--147, 147, 150 and 150(oh i think i messed up here--this was on a cold motor--i didnt warm the motor up before hand--does it matter?). not bad for an old 97'. Changed lower unit oil today nothing in it but black sludge--thats a good thing--not even milky and no metal shavings at all.

i taught myself how to place the remote starter on the solenoid and it work like a charm and just figured i needed to remove the fuse to the plugs before work began.

I bought some muffs today and hooked it al back up and it purrs like a lion !!!


Now tomorrow i will decarb the motor like you told me and I have ordered a water pump kit and thermostat and i will call it done for maintenance for the year. I will let you know how she sounds and runs on the water after i decarb her.

Anything else i should do right now John?

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

Sounds like you about have it licked.

Since your compression is as good as it is, I wouldn't worry about doing it warm. It is obvious that you have no damage or it wouldn't be as high as it is. Out of the factory, the most you got was 165. 150 on an old motor is excellent. The decarb may bring the third cylinder up to the others.



If you leave your boat outside over the winter, I suggest putting some antifreeze in through the plug in front of the thermostat housing. I usually pump it in with one of those picnic type ketchup squeezer bottles. Don't forget to spray fogging oil in it to protect it over the off season.

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

Thanks john,

But living in the southern part of Texas we dont usually winterize our boats--there is no off season here. We usually fish year round. especially in Feb and March--that is when Lake Fork is HOT !!!! I appreciate the thought as your just looking out for the boat.


I do have a question about the decarbing--on the second post off that thread another person goes on to talk about it being a 2 part process? After i do the de-carb will i also need to buy a can a deep creep and spray into carbs and cylinders as well--seems like your just double doing it???

oh and BTW--i got my seloc manuel subscription from ebay--the manuel is not very thorough ?? not many photos or 0-videos. Is there a better manuel out there for my motor? and there parts are as expensive as he#$. Same exact price on a water pump kit as Academy sports. $45.99--i get most of my parts from wholesale marine for $27.43 for the exact same part.

Seloc manuel kinda sucks..in my opinion. no real guidance and the photos they do have are from the 1960's.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

They are actually separate procedures. If you do the Seafoam procedure, you do not need to do the Deep Creep routine.

The Clymer Outboard Shop Manual is the best aftermarket manual out there.

As to parts, most of us buy online from www.crowleymarine.com or iboats or www.mercruiserparts.com.

Unless you are rich, don't buy parts from the local marina!

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

John, you might be shopping at the wrong stores. That water pump kit at Mercruiserparts is $104.92 and $119.00 at Crowleys.--thats way too much to pay for a water pump kit. Kinda like paying for the brand name i guess. Wholesale marine has it for $27.43.


To me they are the same thing --its just that one is not branded mercury. Just my thoughts though. IMO why pay for the name.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

I agree, names mean nothing to me. However, there are different parts kits. The more expensive kits contain the water pump housing, shaft seal, stainless wear plate, gasket and bolts. The cheaper kits only have the impeller and gasket.

That said, I get my complete water pump kit from a supplier in Delaware for $53 with no tax and no shipping fees.

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

John,

Update:

Took my baby to a marine place about an hour from where i live to have a 9" setback plate(jack plate) put on her--so i can try and get my setup right(i was about 7inches(my prop) below pad)--which is way too low--According to professional prop guys it should be 3 1/2"(your prop) below pad(i got mine at 4" below pad which should be fine) for optimal performance and speed. Anyways while i was there i couldnt get my aerator switch to go into auto mode and it was a faulty switch --$21 to get that shipped to my house when the part comes in. left there and came home.

Lastly, I began the decarb process, neighbors i have never met came over and even had a beer with me--hehahahahah we sat and just watched her smoke like all get out. I did it three times and she seemed to still smoke all three times? I ran it from 800rpm-3000rpm at times. NOTE: It seemed like the more gunk it was getting off the higher the RPM's would go(when not touching the throttle from about 1/4 out of neutral wot)--i would have to be right there to adjust throttle back down on it so she didnt get to reved. It finally ran out of the 3/4 gallon of gas, seafoam and oil on the third time by.

My question is I assume three times is enough right? I shouldnt need to do it anymore right?---maybe today would be a good time to take her to the lake and blow it out at WOT and see what readings i get on rpm and water pressure and to check my setup(make sure I dont blow out my prop too much).

Anyways--i have taken this rambling a little far but if your in agreement with me that i shouldnt need to do it again i am heading to the lake and run her WOT for awhile and when it is all said and done--THEN replace the spark plugs. My Thermostat and water pump should be in today and I think I am done for maintenance and tune up on her for the year.

Just to let you know a little something about Force motors--the marine mechanic said never to knock force motors(even though they are near the bottom of the price zone for motors)--they are one of the most durable motors in the field. you can't hardly kill em. they even have a protective alarm sound if she gets to hot --but when an evenrude or johnson gets to hot they will throw a rod quick and you wont have time to react(i am not knocking evenrude or johnson by any means, this is strickly what the mechanic said)--not the force motors though== he loves force motors and thinks most people dont give force motors enough credit. that made me feel pretty good about my motor.

anyways any final thoughts?

oh and btw Thanks for all your help --you have been a good guy to call on here for helping me out and it has been a most pleasurable experience in these forums.

Llunker

 

[john from md]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

Three times should be fine. Now take it out and blow the loose carbon out of it. You will have to readjust the idle speed and mixture when you get back. I would also check your compression again and record the findings for future reference.

Force engines are pretty much old technology but they run and run as long as you maintain them properly. I decarb at the end of every season and it keeps my rings free and compression high.

By the way, if you haven't done it already, check that overheat warning system. All you have to do is ground the wire on the sensor with the key turned on. That should cause the buzzer under the dash to sound.

Happy boating,

John

 

[Llunker]

Re: 1997 Force 120hp Tune up?

By the way, if you haven't done it already, check that overheat warning system. All you have to do is ground the wire on the sensor with the key turned on. That should cause the buzzer under the dash to sound.

Happy boating,

John

Already did that , actually it did it for me --my thermostat was not warm enough and didn't pee properly and the engine told me--ALARM ALARM(sounded) !!! once i reset the muffs and turned up the water on the muffs it started to pump properly. But a force will not turn back on till it has cooled down...