force 125 bogging down

capt. stabin

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Jul 8, 2007
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I have a 89 force 125 and when i get up to wot after about 2min. it bogs way down. It doesn't shut off just bogs way down to ideal speed. I throttle down and then it goes again just not in wot. I can run all day at 1/2 to 3/4 just not wot. I have replaced the fuel pump with a new one all the lines are new primer ball stays firm. any ideas would be helpful.
 

steelespike

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Re: force 125 bogging down

Does it respond to a little choke?Are you sure it is cooling properly?
Is the timing set right?
 

capt. stabin

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Re: force 125 bogging down

Does it respond to a little choke?Are you sure it is cooling properly?
Is the timing set right?

it's cooling right and i never did check the choke or the timing. but it runs fine all day as long as i don't go wot.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: force 125 bogging down

You have a partial clog somewhere in the fuel system--possibly in the tank or possibly at the quick connect fitting --if you have it-- or the screen on the black plastic fitting on the fuel pump. There is also the possibility of a failing fuel pump (either diaphragm or valves) Also do not discount the possibility that one of the pressure/vacuum holes in the pump are clogged allowing the pump to only work on one half of the diaphragm

What happens is at partial throttle the fuel demand is relatively low and the fuel pump can keep up. Engine runs fine. At WOT fuel demand goes way high. It drains the carbs and the engine slows down. When you pull back on the throttle, the fuel pump catches up and refills the carbs. Then you go to WOT and it runs well for a short period until the carbs drain again because the fuel pump can not keep up --because the partial clog will not let enough fuel get to it or the defective diaphragm will not pump enough --etc. Got It?

If it's a Merc square fuel pump, the rubber valves inside it are possibly going bad. They tend to harden from alcohol in the gasoline.
 

capt. stabin

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Re: force 125 bogging down

You have a partial clog somewhere in the fuel system--possibly in the tank or possibly at the quick connect fitting --if you have it-- or the screen on the black plastic fitting on the fuel pump. There is also the possibility of a failing fuel pump (either diaphragm or valves) Also do not discount the possibility that one of the pressure/vacuum holes in the pump are clogged allowing the pump to only work on one half of the diaphragm

What happens is at partial throttle the fuel demand is relatively low and the fuel pump can keep up. Engine runs fine. At WOT fuel demand goes way high. It drains the carbs and the engine slows down. When you pull back on the throttle, the fuel pump catches up and refills the carbs. Then you go to WOT and it runs well for a short period until the carbs drain again because the fuel pump can not keep up --because the partial clog will not let enough fuel get to it or the defective diaphragm will not pump enough --etc. Got It?

If it's a Merc square fuel pump, the rubber valves inside it are possibly going bad. They tend to harden from alcohol in the gasoline.

thanks i will look for clogs and check the screens. the fuel pump is bran new and i had the problem before I got the new fuel pump. all the lines are new as well. but i well check all of them for clogs.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: force 125 bogging down

OK! In the previous post I explained why the engine is running like it is. Now that you know what the problem is, the only way to find the solution is through methodical checking and logic. Your '89 should have the old style 2 stage pump built as part of the bypass cover. I will, however, include some advice on Merc style pumps.

Note that the fuel pump operates on about 2-5 PSI pressure. Most of the times with a full clog, it will collapse the primer bulb. But with a partial clog or a restriction past the bulb, it will not collapse it.

So: Start right at the pick-up in the tank. Does it have a screen? Is the screen clear and free flowing? Now check the Quick-connect if the fuel line has it. Unscrew the male end and check inside the threaded part. Crap tends to collect around the spring that holds the ball shut. Also check to be sure the gasket around the ball is ok and check that the sealing O ring inside the female end is not leaking air. An air leak will give the same symptoms as a bad fuel pump. Check the screen on the pump. BTW: If you need to replace it, that O ring is an oddball size and I don't think the dealer sells them separately. However, PEP Boys and probably other auto stores sell an O ring kit for GM air conditioning systems. These are the correct size and you get about 6-8 of them.

Next, since you have already replaced the pump diaphragm and fuel hose, we will automatically eliminate them.

Check the short vacuum/pressure hose from the block to the pump. If it has air leaks, the pump --even if new-- will not perform at full capacity. The base of most pumps were cast as part of the bypass cover, however, some were separate and used an O ring seal between them and the bypass cover. If you have this kind, be certain that the O ring is not missing and is sealing.

Check the pump button valves to be certain they are sealing. If you blow into them and they pop shut, they are good even if they pass a very little air.

If it is a Merc pump, check the gasket behind the pump or the small O Ring seal. If missing or improperly installed, either will cause an air leak that will reduce pump efficiency.

Finally, and most difficult so we save it for last, Check the needles and seats in the carbs. Sometimes the seats will swell, causing a restriction to fuel flow. Just be aware that the seats have a very small orifice to start--less than 1/16 inch. So don't look at them and automatically say they are bad.

Sometimes crap gets past the pump and clogs the carb inlets and needle seats. If this has happened and both carb needle seats were clogged CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY! If only one carb clogs , the other carries the engine, two cylinders run lean and two pistons will melt. Always -- ALWAYS--put a small, 3 dollar disposable plastic auto fuel filter between the fuel pump and the carbs.
 
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bjhc100

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Re: force 125 bogging down

Frank, My fuel pump kit did not include the "button" valves, just gaskets and diaphram. Can I get buy a new valve somewhere? If not what can I do if the valve(s) are clogged? Its a 1986 125 force engine. Harley
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: force 125 bogging down

I'm sure the dealer will list and sell them, but quite honestly I have never tried. The once or twice I had a problem, I just salvaged a couple out of another pump for which I had no use. They rarely go bad,; they are just a spring loaded plastic buttom that seats against a brass ring.

However, when I first started to work on chryslers, I had a 1976 90. One of the valves broke and shed a piece of brass that partially clogged the middle carb inlet. I melted three pistons in a row before I discovered the problem. That is why I am adamant about putting a cheap filter between the pump and carbs.
 

bjhc100

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Re: force 125 bogging down

Frank, I am compressed. Three pistons in a row and you kept plugging along, that takes steel nerves and determination to keep going til you figured it out. You are the man. Thanks for the tips and the story. Harley
 
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