'98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

[lukethorwart]

1998 Bayliner Capri 1800 with 120 hp Force.<br /><br />Probably something many people have experienced. Get the thing to the water, and the steering is seized up. <br /><br />After reading quite a few articles, I am still not comfortable with what's going on. I can actually turn my wheel about a quarter of a turn both clockwise and counterclockwise but of course, the outboard does not respond when I do this. I'm not pushing it at this point for fear of stripping something in the front part of the system. <br /><br />I am now pretty sure that it's probably realted to corrosion of the cable somewhere in the tube. I don't have a diagram of this tube or of the cable so I'm quite uneasy about doing anything to it. I think this is probably something I can handle, rather than taking it to a shop and waiting until the middle of boating season to have my boat back.<br /><br />I got the gist of removing and replacing the system from some other posts, however the real problem is that the motor is stuck in place such that I can't get the tiller disconnected from the steering rod. I took the lock nut off that connects the two but I can't get the clearance to move it out of the hole where it connects to the steering system. Any suggestions (aside from taking the motor off the transom?)<br /><br />If I could do this, I could test and see if the engine swivels and once that is verified, remove the large nut and try and back the rod out of the tube.<br /><br />Finally, once I remove this large nut on the left side of the tube, (I'm looking at the motor from directly behind it) there is another fairly large nut and what I think is a tension type bolt on the right side of the tube. Do I have to remove these as well?<br /><br />Any help or direction would be great.<br /><br />Thanks in advance.

 

[ebsworj]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

unscrew the large nut that is on the end of your steering cable where it meets the motor. now your engine will be disconnected from the cable and will move side to side freely.<br /><br />Remove the locking nut that connects the outboard to the other steering rod (you can do it, it takes some muscle and a small pry bar). <br /><br />I'm doing the same thing you are am I'm a little further but I ran into a much bigger problem.<br /><br />

<br /><br /> After you have done all this the steering cable end that passes threw the outboard does not have enough clearance on either side to come out. At least on my boat it dosen't. So I cut it off, just to get it out to measure my old cable's length. <br /><br />BUT there is no way to put the new steering cable end through the motor with out cutting a hole in the side of the splash well to get the right angle. It does not bend at all! The other alternative to this is to take the motor off, I have the same 120hp you do and this seems very hard to do!<br /><br />Anyone know the best way for us to do this?

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

are you sure it's the cable?<br /><br />I had same problem and it turned out to be the kingpin. Normally, it wouldn't have been a problem but I didn't drive the boat for 8 months after hurricane charlie I have (or had) a huge mango tree hanging out over the dock. Mango puts out very acidic sap and it severely accelerated galvanization. I had a machine shop cut me a piece of solid 1-1/8" aluminum rod as a replacement and steering is now smooth as silk.<br /><br />disconnect cable from engine to make sure that is is cable. the engine should swing left to right with little more than your pinky finger.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

RRitt,<br /><br />Could you please give a simple explanation on how to do this. I don't want to take the whole steering rod out and take the helm stuff apart and find out it wasn't the problem.

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

disconnect the tie rod from either the engine or steering cable. now the cable should get longer and shorter as you turn the steering wheel. If steering is still tight then it's your cable. If it's your cable then it could even be something as simple as somebody shoved something into a hatch and kinked it or made too sharp a bend. If your steering wheel moves freely then check the engine. grab hold of it and try to turn it from left to right by hand. With the cable disconnected it should be about as hard to turn (spin) as an adult sitting in an office chair.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

I took the tie rod off last night and the engine moves fine back and forth on its own. So the problem is somewhere in the Teleflex system. Can I take something apart at the helm to determine where the problem is in the steering system.<br /><br />One point of note, the wheel will turn about 90º to the right and there is a clicking noise about half way down the steering cable (mounted up in the starboard side about half way down the boat). Does this help me in any way to determine what's wrong?<br /><br />Any other suggestions will help, please.<br /><br /><br />Luke

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

Not familiar with your steering system, so this is generality.<br /><br />If a new steering cable includes a new steering gearbox on your boat, then you may as well just save the time and get a new steering cable. <br /><br />If sterring cable and steering gearbox are separate on your boat then you need to figure out if it is in the gears, in the cable, or in the connection between the two. If it is the gearbox then steering wheel won't turn any more or less when cable is disconnected. If it is in cable, then you won't be able to push/pull the cable far enough by hand (disconnected from gearbox). If it is in the connection between the two then both parts will appear to work but the center length of cable is not in same spot as center spot on gearbox. Center them both and reconnect. However, centering and reconnecting does not explain why it happened in first place and it is bound to happen again until you identify the source (probably gearbox worn out and jumping a few teeth).

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

I worked on it tonight. The steering system is a rack and pinion type set-up. I went to the helm and took the rack off the pinion gear and the steering wheel turns fine now, obviously. After all, it's just a steering column and a pinion gear, no problems here, spins great. I hope it's that nice when I get it fixed at some point.<br /><br />So then I'll probably have to buy a new rack/ cable/steering rod assembly (again no big deal). I hear the no-feedback models from Teleflex are pretty nice anyways so that'll work out good. <br /><br />However, the BIG deal is the fact that I cannot get the steering rod assembly out of the tilt tube. I worked it (hammered it) as far as I could and now the steering rod is flush with the opening of the tilt tube (can't hammer directly on it anymore).<br /><br />I'm thinking about getting some kid of steel rod that is a bit smaller than the diameter of the tilt tube hole so that I can hammer it the rest of the way through. Don't know if that'll work or not, it's really stuck. The other problem is that the distance from where I need to hammer and the side of the splashwell is only about two feet so it's tough to "wind up" for a good hammer blow. Not to mention, I'm going at it from the side. Just not a good situation. I'm also wondering if there are some extra forces acting on this thing from somewhere (engine weight, tension in the cable, etc.) that is making it so difficult to get it out of there. Or perhaps it's just that "gunked" up. Whatever the case, I really am in a bind at this point and would LOVE a magic bullet. I know I'll be in good shape if I can get that rod out.<br /><br />Couple of questions if someone would be so kind to offer advice:<br /><br />First of all does this all sound reasonable thus far?<br /><br />Second of all, does it matter what position the tilt system is in if I get the rod to pound through? There is a point where the tilt tube and the main engine mounting bracket come together and pivot on the steering rod. It looks like something bad might happen with the weight of the engine if the engine is horizontal position (i.e. prop facing the sky) when/if I pound the rod through. <br /><br />Thank you in advance.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

I just came to a bad realization. The reason the engine seems to be moving is probably because I'm banging the tilt tube out!!! Could someone verify this? So then, how do I get the steering rod to come out instead of both the rod and the tilt tube itself?

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

if you can get the cable back out, then get it out and file it down. then as the smaller diameter enters the tube it will not bind. <br /><br />however .... sounds to me like you have been pounding with a hammer instead of a punch. If the end of cable is mushroomed then you can forget driving it through. If so then I'd use my 4.5" die grinder to cut the cable and punch the dead carcass back out the other end.<br /><br />Charleston? does that mean saltwater? Have you checked you anode lately? vinegar does a good job of removing salt residue. boiling hot vinegar does even better. I always keep a windex spray bottle full of vinegar handy and then give a good wash down when finished (to remove vinegar which is slightly acidic and will accelerate galvanization).

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

OK, well I don't own a die grinder so I'll have to try and maybe use a hacksaw. May take awhile but we'll give it a go. I'm still kind of confused as to why the tilt tube would be coming out when I was only pounding on the Steering Rod. I guess it's just really bound up good in there. Any suggestions on where to cut the cable and then how to punch it back through and also how to get my tilt tube back in place? What does the actual cable itself look like once I cut it?

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

the tilt tube has two large nuts on one end that hold it in place. The other end is unthreaded. Without those two nuts, it should move freely. The tilt tube does not add strength or rigidity to your motor mounting. the big carriage bolt used as a tilt pivot combined with the thru-hull transom bolts provide the strength. There's a pair of fiberglass washers on each end of pivot bolt that allow the motor to tilt even after the bolt is tightened.<br /><br />the tilt tube may not realy be the part that's moving. It might be that your starboard bracket (on the left when looking at motor from inside boat) is moving. At some point you're going to need to deal with that and make sure that everything is re-aligned and that the sealing compound around transom bolts is still good.<br /><br />but for now - the steering tube.<br /><br />after cutting the cable, you may want to try taking off the grease fitting and outside tube nut. then slide the tube back inside the brackets and take off the other nut. Now you can take the tube to your basement and <br />1) get out the mushroomed cable end<br />2) carefully file down any mushrooming of cable tube and make sure that there are no burrs.<br />3) if neccessary, wash out grease then boil in vinegar to remove salt deposits<br />4) take tube to store with you when you buy new cable<br /><br />I recently rebuilt my entire tilt/trim/motor mount/swivel. I think you and I had same type of problem. Salt water boat that sat for too long and got a buildup of crud in the steering system. Mine was bad, very bad. I had mango tree dripping acid juice and mud-wasps building nests (made out of salty mangrove mud). Between the three of them my swivel kingpin seized. Major headache that required taking both motors off the boat.<br /><br />Anyway, I have a couple of leftover steering tubes if yours is shot.

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

oh, sorry. might be bad advice without die grinder. hacksawing stainless will wear you out. it's a last resort that requires the very best saw blades.<br /><br />maybe you can use a combination of steering wheel and pliers to get cable to come back out? then a common metal file will work. if not, then check your local chinese tool store (like harbor freight tools). they often have 4-1/2" grinders for $15. make sure there is nothing flammable on the boat before starting.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

Let me explain a bit more about the way this is set up. I will take you from the perspective of looking at the motor from outside the boat.<br /><br />The steering cable runs down the starboard side of the boat and through a hole in the side of the splashwell. The first thing encountered once out of the well is a bolt that I believe some sort of tension nut (part of steering cable). Next, on this same threaded a part is another bolt that was bolted up against the engine mounting bracket. I don't know if this is holding the steering rod agains the tilt tube, or actually holding the tilt tube in place. After this bolt, it disappears into the inside. Coming out the other side (port side) there is a big bolt on an external thread that was bolted to the engine mounting bracket. Then 8" of steering rod and then the end of the steering system with the hole and the flats to connect up to the engine.<br /><br />I have removed the bolt on the port side and have loosed what I'm calling the tension bolt and the other bolt as far starboard as they can go. What I'm wondering is which (if any) of these bolts should stay IN PLACE while trying to punch the tube through. I just don't understand what is holding the steering system in place as opposed to what is holding the tilt tube in place.<br /><br />Confused, but probably shouldn't be.<br /><br />Luke

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

Also, I'm still confused as to where exactly you are recommending to cut the cable, and which way to punch it back through. Punch it left to right, or right back to left as you look at the motor outside of the boat.

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

on my boat ... it looks like the picture ebsworj posted. <br /><br />on the far left is hex nut that holds cable onto tube. on far right is a bolt that connects tie rod to cable. in the middle is another 9/16" head hex bolt that connects the engine. The tie rod should be sitting in a box and the nut should be fully unscrewed. If everything is proper the cable would then slip right out towards the left side of drawing. the end of cable where tie rods bolt is same size as tube. if mushroomed it will not pass through tube. if mushroomed you must either remove mushrooming or figure out a way to remove cable in the other direction.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

When you purchase a new cable, what is the nut that comes with it used for? Does that connect to the tilt tube? Does that need to come off completely to remove the cable?

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

And are there any threads on the steering cable/tube itself? Or are the threads I'm seeing from the engine pivot/tilt tube?

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

the cable has a large nut at motor end that screws onto tilt tube. The cable will not come off if the nut is screwed on. I just looked at the mercury website. they changed the design and your tilt tube and steering tube have been combined into one. That means that you can not remove the tilt tube without your engine falling off. it also means that banging on it too much is not a good idea.<br /><br /> https://www.mercruiserparts.com/Sho....png&inbr=2531&bnbr=150&bdesc=TRANSOM+BRACKET

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

Well yes that makes a bit more sense at least.<br /><br />Suggestions at this point then? You think I can still get the cable out and the tilt tube back in place. Cut it?<br /><br />From this picture, which bolts would you now suggest I remove?<br /><br />My current state is that I nut (part #5) off and have the tilt tube/steering rod pounded to where it's flush with the hole in the transom bracket (part #2 on the diagram).<br /><br />It can't all be one part, the cable still has to be separate right?