Force Electrical problem

[Nauteal]

I need some help! I have a 1998 Force 75 on the back of a pontoon boat. I have owned the boat for a while, but the engine was new to me in July. Except for 2 weekends it has spent the last 8 weeks at this highly recommended boat mechanics place. Now $757.00 later I have had enough.<br /><br />My problem, from around 2800 RPM’s on up to 4500+ RPM’s one of the three cylinder cuts out. Continuing on up to 5000 RPM’s it somewhat goes away. Don’t laugh, but this is the best way I can describe it. If a smooth running engine looks like this: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.<br /><br />Mine looks like this MMMMMMMMMMM----------MMMMMMMMM------------MMMMMMMMMMMMM--------. It drops about a half an RPM when it cuts-out.<br /><br />I have read a lot of post here on replacing the CDI’s, Trigger and the Stator. For what I have spent I could have bought a nice DVM and NEW parts for all the above mentioned.<br /><br />Is it worth bypassing a new DVM meter and just going ahead and buying 1 new CDI and testing it in all 3 positions to see if swapping it around corrects the problem? If that doesn’t work, just moving on to the Trigger and then finally to the Stator?<br /><br />Your thoughts?

 

[roscoe]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Sounds like a plan.<br />Might want to get a repair manual and run a few tests on the stator first. maybe save you a bit of cash.<br /><br />What has the "mechanic" done so far?<br />And what does he think the problem is?

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Force Electrical problem

You can buy a cheap DVM at Home Depot for 20 bucks. Testing most of the electronics will require a DVA Adaptor which I doubt will work on a cheap DVM however is will let you test Volts both DC and AC and ohms. A good portion of the testing on outboards is testing for ohms.

 

[Nauteal]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Originally posted by roscoe:<br /> Sounds like a plan.<br />Might want to get a repair manual and run a few tests on the stator first. maybe save you a bit of cash.<br /><br />What has the "mechanic" done so far?<br />And what does he think the problem is?

Thanks for your reply Roscoe. I have enjoyed reading many of your post here on Iboats.<br /><br />I actually paid the mechanic to move the engine from another pontoon boat to mine. He checked compression, rebuilt the carburetor, supposedly changed the water pump and the leg oil all before moving the motor. I checked the oil in the leg before taking it to him and the seal was fine . . . no milk. I knew the engine had not really been used much in 3 years. I would be willing to bet the engine does not have 100 hours on it, but it did sit in a warm fresh water lake for the last 3 years without ever being taken-out. Despite all that the engine looks cosmetically new. Basically I am the second owner and the first one had more money than he did the desire to take care of it. <br /><br />I am not impressed with this mechanic that worked on it. After the first 4 weeks that he had the boat when he transferred the engine - when I got the boat back something was wrong with the key-switch. It first felt like someone had put the wrong key in it and bent the tumblers. After taking the boat out for a test drive I found out something was wrong either in the switch or the way he had hooked things up. The switch began to melt on me as well as I noticed the MMMMM------ Cut-Out problem. I took the boat back to him typing up each of the specific problems for him to have to be able to work from. <br /><br />Now 4 weeks later I get the boat back with a new switch and that portion of the electrical problem seems to be fine, but the cutting-out problem is still there even after he claims he water tested it twice. I don’t really believe that. I could see missing these problems sitting on a garden hose or in a trash can, but not on the lake. (FYI - The original engine setup on my boat was a warn-out 1987 Mercury 90HP-3 cylinder. Very similar engine, but this Force seems a lot stronger.) In the two phone conversations I had with him over the last 4 weeks and when I went to pick up the boat he seemed very scattered and when I questioned him on specifics – he was too much mumbo jumbo to have any real confidence in what he was saying or had done. I can only figure he is either too busy or he may not have worked on that many Forces.<br /><br />Lastly, I do know that the Cut-Out problem did exist before the motor was transferred to my boat, but I thought it just needed to be tuned up and gone through. I am not foreign to working on my own toys, but this is my first experience with a Force Outboard. So far I am pleased with the motor. I can tell it has real potential.

 

[Nauteal]

Re: Force Electrical problem

 

[Nauteal]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Originally posted by eurolarva:<br /> You can buy a cheap DVM at Home Depot for 20 bucks. Testing most of the electronics will require a DVA Adaptor which I doubt will work on a cheap DVM however is will let you test Volts both DC and AC and ohms. A good portion of the testing on outboards is testing for ohms.

Actually I have a DVM, I meant to say it was the DVA that I don’t have. There isn’t an inexpensive DVA that will work available, is there?<br /><br />Also I do have the Selco manual for the Force motor and I have read through the test sequences to perform on the 3 areas as well as examining the wiring for breaks before commencing.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Force Electrical problem

This will work on a fluke meter<br /> DVA Adaptor

 

[speedwrench]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Nauteal: My wife's '96 75hp on 'toon does exactly the same thing except RMP range is narrower, 3200-4000. Engine idles smooth in gear at 700 RPM, and will pull up to 4900 without missing a lick. Just does it when crusing. <br /> Don't THINK it's ignition related, stator and trigger have been changed. The engine sounds like it goes rich and starts 4 cycling or droping one cylinder, tach doesn't show RPM drop. Been doing it for 4 years now and doesn't seem to foul plugs or hurt anything (except maybe fuel mileage).<br />Thinking about changing reeds when and if it gets bad enough she notices it or it otherwise gets to top of list. Maybe just a better muffler? Or louder radio? <br />If you find something, let us know. <br />Good luck with any mechanic, best to do it yourself, anything extra you tear up is just educational cost. Get manual, use as guide only, they're just as full of BS as the rest of us. Force is old tech basic engine and easy to work on.<br /><br />Dave

 

[Nauteal]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Speedwrench: Thanks for your feedback. I am not trying to sound ugly towards anyone here. If this can't be cured I won't keep it, bottom line. No other marine engine I have ever owned has run like this. My 'tach does register the cut-outs with only a small downward tick. A radio would not smooth-out the annoying feeling of the mild surges for my passengers and myself.<br /><br />I had thought about changing the reed valves along with the ignition parts that I have been considering.<br /><br />You are right about the mechanic and the manuals, but I do appreciate all the feedback I get here on the forum.

 

[speedwrench]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Nauteal: Sorry bout so long getting back to you. Guess we're the only ones to ever see this.<br />Like I said, been 4 years and can't see has hurt anything. It can be cured, we just have to figure what to fix. I'm still guessing reeds, but leaning toward louder radio. <br /><br />Dave

 

[ackman]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Why not buy some SeaFoam and do a thorough decarb first. If reeds are suspect (and after the stator checks-out OK), eliminate the carb with a rebuild job."Professionally" done is $65 or less. Also, have you forced the fuel delivery pressure with the primer bulb at the rpm that you experience the skip?

 

[speedwrench]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Thorough de-carb done several times.<br />Does same thing with different stators and/or triggers.<br />Carb "professionally" done by me for lot less than Dufus Dewberry charges. Factory jet sizes. Starts and idles smooth (will idle below 500rpm in gear), no hesitation when cram it wide open from idle, smooth at WOT, 4900 rpm (will go to 5300 smooth with other{wrong} prop). No change!<br />No change if pump primer bulb pumped up when it's<br />doing it.<br />Been doing the 4 cycle thing between 3200-4000 rpm for 4 years now, I just run it under 3200 or over 4000. <br />Will try reeds when/if gets to top of priority list. <br />109* here today, can't get boat in shop, don't really feel like tearing into engine or mounting new speakers out in the sun. <br /><br />Dave

 

[Nauteal]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Ackman & Speedwrench - Thanks for your feedback!<br /><br />I am still pondering my problem. I have not performed any test on the electrical as of yet. I have done the decarb thing, with only some minor relief. While pondering though, I noticed something else that does not seem right. Maybe you can shine some light here. <br /><br />The line that extends down from the carburetor bowl to the solenoid-primer appears to be made of a vacuum line type of material, yet when I popped it off the other day fuel just ran out the fitting on the bottom of the bowl. Tell me if I am wrong, but doesn’t that line work as a vacuum line and fuel should not be able to flow down that tube?<br /><br />As for covering the problem up with a stereo, I would have no problem dropping an 800 watt stereo system on the boat. But, you would still feel the poor running of the motor while the blood was running out of your ears from having the thing cranked up to 150 db. It is just not a sound problem. It is a cruddy running problem.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Nauteal, the hose from the carb bowl is the supply line to the solenoid/fuel enrichment valve. It should be filled with fuel. When solenoid opens, fuel flows from bowl directly into the manifold behind the carb.

 

[Nauteal]

Re: Force Electrical problem

Hey thanks Roscoe! That sure is a light weight sort of line for fuel verses it looks more like a vacuum line.

 

[corvette-old]

Re: Force Electrical problem

i have a question about my 125 force It runs great @ home but when i get to salt water it want idle and run and when i put it in gear it cuts off. Ichanged from my factory under floor tank and cleaned out the lines it would go 5200 rpm. So the next trip i cleaned out a 12gal. tank and it would smoke really bad and not idle. So ihooked it to my son's 6 gal. tank and run great but only 3500rpms. I changed the prop to a stainless steel prop 17p like was on it but 1500rpms less. could the pitch make a difference ? Someone please help me so i don"t change this motor. runs fine while it wants to run. thanks corvette-old