Help with starting problem.

[Clueless_Boater]

Hello everyone. New to the forum, so if this is in the wrong spot or if the question has been asked a million times I apologize. I have seen people with this problem in my searching, but no one seems to finish the threads out with the fix of the issue.

I have a '72 (I think) chrysler 12.9 HP motor that was given to me along with a small v bottom from a customer of mine (I'm a contractor) who just wanted it off their property. The outboard has been kept inside it's whole life, but hasn't been ran in 30 years since his father last used it. He said his father never had issues with it, but was sure after sitting so long that it needed some love. I have never worked on a outboard before, but thought since it was free it wouldn't hurt. It is in great shape for its age, and doesn't look like it was ever damaged from water or anything.

Anyway, here is my problem. The starter seems to be working fine, but the flywheel is pretty tough to turn. With the electric start, it acts like it's bogged down. I thought maybe the piston rings were starting to freeze up, but when I take the plugs out it seems to spin as normal. Goes into gear fine, and the lower unit looked good when I took it apart. I am getting a compression tester tomorrow from a buddy to see what it's showing. Sitting here tonight I realized I haven't checked to see if it's getting spark yet, but it won't turn quick enough to start regardless. I will check for spark tomorrow when I'm checking compression. I have tried putting some oil into the cylinders, but with no improvements. Also had no change with the lower unit off, just to rule out that. Also forgot to add it's the same issue no matter if I pull start or electric start.

Anyone have any ideas where I should start? I will keep everyone updated on the compression and spark tests. I have also noticed it's pretty hard to find parts for these motors. Might not even be worth messing with, but I'd like to give it a go. Worst case maybe I learn a little bit for when I get a "real boat." Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[charleso]

You are in the right track with the compression test and spark test. Someone with more knowledge than me will have to chime in, but it sounds like perhaps the exhaust valves may be sticking and or damaged. And yes Chrysler motor parts will be harder to come by. You will have to do some research to locate some parts.

 

[flyingscott]

What exhaust valves this is a 2 strk motor!! Did you put any lube in the cylinders before turning it? Take the lower unit off and see if it gets easier you will have to anyway to change the water pump. Is there gearlube in the lower unit. If the motor was not properly stored it may be a lost cause.

Read the stickies at the top of the forum how to awaken a sleeping motor.

 

[SeaDooSam]

Dump Marvel mystery oil down the cylinders and let it sit for a day. That should help get things moving

 

[jerryjerry05]

He said he took the drive off and it still was stiff.
charleso no valves in 2 stroke outboards.
​
Since it's set for so long??
​Pull the carb and reed plate and have a peek inside at the crank and bearings???
​Maybe pull the head and check the pistons and cylinder walls?

You can try to lube the bearings and crank.
​I use 1 50/50 solution of acetone and transmission oil.
Spray it into the crank and turn the motor over and let it set for a couple of days.
Turning it over every 8 hrs or so.

 

[Clueless_Boater]

Thanks for the quick responses! Just to clarify, I have already pulled the lower unit, nothing changed. There was gear lube, but I went ahead and drained the old and filled with new. I dumped 2 stoke oil down the cylinders a few days ago and let it sit for about 24 hours, give or take. I will try all the other suggestions so far, and see if anything works.

 

[Clueless_Boater]

Well I was able to get the compression test done tonight. Top read 120 and bottom 150. Should they both be the same? From what I've read it looks like the top is a little low and the bottom is too high, right?

I can also add no spark to the list of problems. Both top and bottom were getting no spark. The plugs are new and I tried both of them on each wire, so it's not the plugs themselves. I assume this is a completely unrelated issue than my flywheel struggling to turn while under compression.

Is this something worth trying to fix, or should I throw in the towel before investing any more time and money into it? If it is worth fixing, I will do some research off this site, but if any of you know what I need to do I'm all ears. I thought about just selling it for parts and getting another used motor, but am afraid since I don't know what I'm looking at, I might be in the same boat. Let me know what you guys think, anything helps. I appreciate everyone's help so far.

 

[mla2ofus]

My 90 HP force started acting that way with the elec starter. After making sure all connections were good I removed and disassembled the starter. Everything looked good so I greased the shaft bushings good and it has spun the engine over good for about 8 years now.
mike

 

[Nordin]

These engines are simple old school enginering, very easy to work on.

The no spark issue will be solved if you pull off the flywheel, clean the points and regap them to 020.
Maybe you have to replace the condensers.
They grow old and may leak because of insulation. The coils normaly last for a very long time. But they can dry out.

Your engine has a dynastart system. This mean that the starter works as starter when you start it and act as a alternator when runing.

They are a little bit harder to work on then the regular model with only manual starting system.
You have to pull the dynastarter off before you can pull the flywheel.

About the tought turning issue, it can be one piston, bearing in crank, bearing in piston etc.
You have to investigate with a closer look.

The compression numbers are good maybe a bit uneven. 10-15 % differens between is acceptable.

I would suggest to go on with this one, but it is up to you.

Parts are out there at Ebay, Craiglist etc and many parts will fit form other Hp such as ignition components.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The 30 # difference is probably why it's turning slow.
​The Chrysler/ Forces don't seem to want to turn over right unless the comp is right.
30# is like 20-25% difference.

​My 3cyl. 85hp,. if the difference is any more than 15# it doesn't turn over good at all.

​Like Nordin said, easy to work on and parts can be found.

 

[Clueless_Boater]

How do I go about fixing compression problems? Maybe I'm just bad at searching, but can't seem to find the things I'm looking for. Do you think it's just the piston rings?

 

[Nordin]

Start with pulling the head off.
Check the pistons from there and you can also look at the cylinderwalls.
If there is problem with the pistons you will image it there.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The intake side where the fuel pump sets.
​There are intake port covers, the pump sets on one.
​You can remove the one with the bad compression and see the condition of the rings..
It only shows a small portion of the piston but you might see enough to tell how much damage is there??

​Removal of the head will show the condition of the cyl. walls.
​You'll eventually need to do this to rebuild.

​Usually that much difference in comp means the rings are stuck, broken.
​Just hope the damage isn't to bad.

Post pics.

 

[Clueless_Boater]

Well I haven't had much time to look at this, so I thought I'd take it to one of the marines out here. None will even take the time to look at it, but 1 said it's probably the starter (not it) and 2 said it would probably involve boring the cylinders and getting extremely lucky in finding oversize Pistons. I definitely don't want to pay for that...
All 4 places I went suggested just buying a new motor, which isn't happening either way.

I found rings and a gasket online, but don't want to keep throwing money into a giant paperweight. The cylinder walls seem fine and smooth to the touch, but one of the mechanics said if it were the rings it would have low compression, not high. I could build you a house with my eyes closed, but I'm completely clueless when it comes to this stuff. This might be a bit over my head.

 

[Clueless_Boater]

Toyed with it a bit today. Here are some pictures. Maybe you guys might see something I don't, but everything seems fine. This is also above my knowledge, so it could be plain as day to you guys. I also poured 2 stroke oil in the cylinders last night, so that's why there is extra oil in them.

 

[Clueless_Boater]

No Title

Here are the top cylinders and rings (from what you can see). Top is putting out 120# compression. I had to compress the photos to fit, so hopefully the quality isn't too bad.

 

[Clueless_Boater]

No Title

Here is the bottom cylinder and rings. It has 150# compression

 

[jerryjerry05]

If the cylinder walls are in good shape?? The rings might be stuck on the other side.
The rings can probably be found.
​Try using a de-carb.on it to bring up the compression.
OMC and Mercury and Yamaha all sell a great de-carb.
​Power Tune and Engine Tuner. That's the name from the US makers.
Yam has one too.
​Seafoam says their product removes carbon but I found it doesn't work.

You'll need to remove the pistons to do a good job.


​The exhaust side cover: don't take it off.
The only thing you might get is broken bolts and lots of aggravation.

 

[Clueless_Boater]

If the cylinder walls are in good shape?? The rings might be stuck on the other side.
The rings can probably be found.
​Try using a de-carb.on it to bring up the compression.
OMC and Mercury and Yamaha all sell a great de-carb.
​Power Tune and Engine Tuner. That's the name from the US makers.
Yam has one too.
​Seafoam says their product removes carbon but I found it doesn't work.

You'll need to remove the pistons to do a good job.


​The exhaust side cover: don't take it off.
The only thing you might get is broken bolts and lots of aggravation.

Walls feel smooth and I didn't feel any grooves in the walls or anything. I found some rings, I'll order that and new gaskets and see if that works. I am stuck at trying to remove the flywheel right now. I sprayed a bunch of penetrating oil on it and was letting it sit over night. I will assemble it back together and try de-carbing it first and see what happens. Or should I still replace the rings?

The exhaust cover you were talking about looked like it had been welded or something at some point. I hit around the weld with a hammer a bit to see if it was solid and it seemed to be. You can kind of see it in the left of one of those picrures.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The de-carb might help enough?
Might not?
I see the weld?? Try taking it off.
Go SLOW and use PB Blaster and maybe a small torch?